�i:1-SemI""'"
A
_
P
-f-a4t7"-f-@
4�olume III, �o. 1,
-�
- '42-•
1-2
42-
42
13-16
42
1-8
42
3 1-4
5 -8 -
5
S-;-B--
II
1- 16
5
- -----j-8
-A -A-
LYERE-2 5
3- 4
D'-�ERE 35
[)I G
DIG
EO
EO
DIG E(l
40
45
9 1-4
DISNE Y 40
DISNEY 45
IlU �NT 100
-
-8-
-A-
-A-
2 1- 4
10
J-4
4 J -8
6 1-2
7 1-2
8 1-2
2
---:<5 1-4
\
10 3-4
50
DISNEY 35
A
1-16
5-8
D"ffiE 30
35 1-4
7-8-
J
7-8
5-8
4 7-8
3-8 2
9-16
,31 - 2
-8-
�_'--
76-'j --1
76-
..-;- -1-2'
'15-16.
C TE.L 2 0
-
1 5 7-8
�
15 7-8
35 1-2
35 1-2
-A-
35 1-2
8 1-4
49 1-4
II
3-4
5 1-2
-A-
6
31-2
49 1-4
49 1-4
42 3-4
42 3-4
42 3-4
-8- 131 3-4
31 3-4
Kat�� M!kerDLee IBreUerD1 WilliamlBll rrou�
JOMeQ.��D Dav!d, i;iooRe
�cdGlijetp_ el��zi�
_
DouglassDonnDRichard-ForemanDMicbel iIl(}Imlult
Joh�qfqr��DPhii �sDeI!fistop�e� KW�s
Jfllto�FraJl�ois LyotardDiJjrike M¢inliof 32
LLETJack SmithDRobe1't'Wilsow
01 LET J5
A
I')
Land more
17 3-il
DLJ
eNT
10
21 1-2
23 1-4
24 1-4
32
GI
-
-
,
1-16
G-WYR
1-8
J
-A-
{- I A
32
us:t +0
..
.
5
+0
....
---
BRAlN
mCld.
•
•
•
•
•
-
"------
I
,
semiotexte
522 Philosophy HaiL
Columbia University
New York, N.Y. t0027
(212) 230-3956
EDITORIAL COMMITTEE:
Denise Green, Denis Hollier, James Leigh, Sylvete Lotringcr (General Editor),
Roger McKeon. Jobn Rajcbman. Michel Rosenfeld, Pal Steir.
ASSOCIATE EDITORS
Tbomas Gora, Suzanne Guerlac, Lee Hildreth.
DESIGN EDITOR
Gil Eisner
ISSUE DESIGNERS
Martim Avillez, Kathryn Bigelow, Diego Cortez. Peter Downsborough,
Denise Green, Linda McNeill, Michael OblowUz, Pat Steir.
PRODUCTION STAFF
Janet Adams, Fred Dewey, Chuck Clark, Jonathan Crary, Vivian Efthimides,
Rick Gardner, Judith Garrecht, Georgina Horvath, Alice Jardine,
Usa Kahane, David Levine, Louis Marvick, Rachel McComas, Stamos Metzidakis.
Linda McNeill, Rita Nader, Betsy Rorschach, Andrew Rosenbaum,
Addie Russo, Julio Santo Domingo, Alan Schwab, Syma Solovitch, Irwin
Tempkin,
Peggy Waller, Marc Weinrich.
SPECIAL EDITOR FOR SCHIZO-CULTURE
Sylvere Lotringer
BENEFACTORS
Gerard Bucber, Katbleen Duda, Mia Lotringer, David Neiger, Jobn Rajcbman.
Pamela Tytell. Contributions of $50.00 or more are listed as Benefactors
and 525.00 as Sponsors. All contributions are tax�deductible.
SUBSCR1PTlONS
Individuals: 51.50 per volume; Institutions: 518.00. Three issues comprise one
volume. Add 52.00 per volume for surface mail outside the U.S. and Canada.
Checks should be made payable to Semiotext(e}, Inc. Exclusively Use International
Money Orders if outside the U.S.
Semiotext(e} is a self-supporting, non profit journal. It is Indexed in MLA
Bibliography and French XX Bibliography,
©by
Semiotext(e),
Inc.
1978 ISSN. 0093·95779
SCHIZO-
CULTURE
Michel Foucault, The Eye ojPower • • , . "
• • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • . • • • • • • • • . • . • • • • • • • • • • •
6
Robert Wilson, Interview . • • . . • • • • • • . • • . • • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • . • . • • . . • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • 20
Fran�ois Pt'iraldi, A Schizo and the1nstitution
. . • . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . • . "
............ 20
Guy Hocquenghem, We All Can 't Die in Bed • • . • • • . • • • • • • • . • • • • • . . • . • • • • • • • • • • • • 28
The Ramones, Teenage Lobotomy • • • . • • • • . . • • • • • . • ' " • . • • • • • • • • • . • , • • " • • " • • • 32
The Boston Declaration on Psychiatric Oppression . . . • • . . • ' " • • " • • • , . • • . • . ' " • • . 34
William Burroughs, The Limits of Control • • . • • • • • . • • . • , • • " • • • • " . . • • • • • • • • • • • , • • 38
Louis Wolfson, Full Stopfor an Infernal Planet • • • • , • . • , • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 44
Lee Breuer. Media Rex• • . • . • • • • • • . • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 48
Eddie Griffin, Breaking Men's Minds . • • • • . • • • • • • • • ' " • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • " • • • • • • • 48
Wendy Clark, Love Tapes • • ' " • • . • • • • . • • • • • . • • • • . . • • • . • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 60
Police Band, Antidisestablishment Totalitarianism • • . . . • • • • • • • • . • • • • . • . • • • • • • • • • • 64
Elie C. Messinger, Violence to the Brain • • • • • • • • • • • • ' " • • • " • • • • • • ' " • • " • • • • • • • 66
David Cooper, The Invention of Non-Psychiatry • • . • • • , • • . • , . • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • 66
Martine Barrat, Vicki • . • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • . . • • • • . • • • • • • • • . . • • • • • • • • . • • • • . 74
John Giorno, Grasping at Emptiness • . • ' " • • • • • • • • • • • " • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 82
The Hard Machine • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • . • • , • • . • , • • • • • • " • • , • • • • ' " • • • • • • " • • 96
Alphonso F. Lingis. Sa vages • • • • • • " • • • • • • • • • • , " • • , • . • • • • • • • • . • , " • • " • • • • . • • 96
Bernard-Henri Levy. The ''Argentine Model" . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108
Kathy Acker, The Persian Poems • • • • • • • . • • • • • . • • • . • . • • • • • • • . • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • 116
Richard Foreman,14 Things I Tell Myself . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . '" ..... 124
Seth Neta, To-Ana-No·Ye (Anorexia Nen'osa) . • • • • • • • • . • • . • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • . • . . 133
Andre Cadere, Boy with a Slick • • • • • , • . • • • • " • • • . . • . • . • • • . • . • . • • • • . • . • • • . • • . • 140
Ulrike Melnhof, Armed Anti-Imperialist Struggle • • • • . • " . • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • " • • " • 140
Gilles Deleuze, politics • • • • • . . • . • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • • 154
John Cage, Emptywords • • • " • • • • . • . • • , • • • , . • • ' " . • • • • • • • . • , • • • , ' " • • • • • • • • • • 165
175
........................ 178
Phil Glass, Interview
178
Jack Smith, Uncle FishoQk and the Sacred Baby Poo-poo ofArt
192
Jean Fran\,ois Lyotard, On (he Strength ofthe Weak."
204
Douglas Dunn. Interview
204
Pat Steir . • • • . • • • . . • • . • • • . • • • • , • • • , . "
. , . • • • • • . . • . • . . • • • , • • • • • • • • • • . "
Jean-Jacques Abrahams, Fuck the Talkies
• • . . . . . . . . . "
• • . . • • • • • . • . "
. , • • • • , " • . • • • • • , • • • ' "
. , • • • , ' "
• • • . •
• • • • • . • • • •
. . • . • . • • . • • . • • • • • . .
. • . • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
. . • • • • . • • "
• • • • , • • , • • . • • • • • • • • • "
• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • .
Back IssueslF'orthcoming • . • • " . • • • • . • • • • ' " • • . " . , ' " • . • " • . " • • • • • • • • • , • • • • 220
Credits for Visuals • • • • • • . . • . • • • • • . • • • . . . • • • • . . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • 221
Michel Foucault
The Eye of Power
Panopticon, a work published a t the
end of the 18th century that has remained largely unknown, nevertheless in
spired you to term it "an event in Ihe history oj the human mind", "0 revolu
tionary discovery in the order of politics". And you described Bentham, a n
Englishjurist, a s "the Fourr ier ofa police society", I This is all very mysterious
for us, but as for you, how did you encounter the Panopticon?
Jean·Pierre Barou: Jeremy Bentham's
Michel Foucault: It was while studying the origins of clinical medicine. I was
considering a study on hospital architecture in the second half of the 18th cen
tury. at the time of the major reform of medical institutions. I wanted to know
how medical observation, the observing gaze of the clinician (fe regard
mMical), became institutionalized; how it was effectivelY inscribed within
social space; how the new hospital structure was at one and the same time the
effect of a new type of perception (regard) and its support. And I came to
realize, while examining the different architectural projects that resulted from
the second fire at the Hotel-Dieu in 1772, to what extent the problem of the
total visibility of bodies, of individuals and of things, before a centralized
eyesight (regard). had been one of the most constant guiding principles. In the
case of hospitals, this problem raised yet another difficulty: one had to avoid
contacts, contagions, proximities and overcrowding at the same time as insur
ing proper ventilation and the circulation of air: the problem was to divide
space and leave it open, in order to insure a form of surveillance at once global
and individualizing, while carefully separating the individuals under surveil
lance. For quite some time I believed these problems to be particular to 18th
century medicine and its beliefs.
Later, while studying the problems of penal law, I became aware that all the
major projects for the reorganization of prisons (projects that date, incidental
ly, from slightly later, from the first half of the 19th century) took up the same
theme, but almost always in reference to Jeremy Bentham. There were few
texts or projects concerning prisons where Bentham's "device", the "panop
ticon" , did not appear.
The principle resorted to is a simple one: on the periphery runs a building in
the shape of a ring; in the center of the ring stands a tower pierced by large
windows that face the inside waH of the fing; the outer building is divided into
celis, each of which has two windows: one corresponding to the tower's win�
dows, facing into the cell; the other, facing outside, thereby enabling light to
traverse the entire cell. One then needs only to place a guard in the central
7
tower, and to lock into each cell a mad. sick or condemned person, a worker or
a pupiL Owing to the back-lighting effect, onc can thus make out the small
captive silhouettes in the cells. In summary, the principle of the dark cell is re
versed: bright light and the guard's observing gaze arc found to impound bet
ter than the shadows which in fact protected.
One is already struck by the fact that the same concern existed well before
Bentham. It seems that one of the first models of this form of isolating visi
bility was instituted in the Military Academy of Paris in 1751, with respect to
the dormitories. Each Of the pupils was to have a windowed liell where he
could De seen all night long without any possible contact with his fellow·
students or even the domestic help. In addition there was a very complicated
mechanism whose sole purpose was to enable the barber to comb each of the
residents without touching him physically: the pupil's head extended from a
kind of skylight with the body on the other side of the glass partition, allow
ing a clear view of the entire process. Bentham told how it was his brother
who first had the idea of the panopticon whiie visiting the Military Academy.
The theme was, in any ca!le, clearly in the air at this time. Claude-Nicolas
Ledoux's constructions, niost notably the salt-mine he had organized at Arc
et-Senans, tended to employ the same visibility effect, but with one important
addition, namely, that there be a central point that would serve as the seat of
the exercise of power as well as the place for recording observations and gain
ing knOWledge. While the idea of the panopticon preceded Bentham, it was
nevertheless he who actually formulated it. The very word panoptictJn can be
considered crucial. for it designates a comprehensive principle. Berttham's
conception was therefore more than a mere architectural figure meaht to re
solve a specific problem such as that raised by prisons or schools or hospitals.
Bentham himself proclaims the panopticon to be a "revolutionary discov
ery". It wa!.' therefore Bentham who proposed a solution to the problem faced
by doctors, penologists, industrialists and educators: he discovered the tech
nology of power necessary to resolve problems of surveillance. It is important
to note that Bentham considered his optical procedure to be the major inno
vation for the easy, effective exercise of power. As a matter of fact, this
innovation has been utilized widely since the end of the 18th century. But the
procedures of power resorted to in modern societies are far more numerous
and diverse and rich. It would be false to state that the principle of visibility
has dominated the whole technology of power since the 19th century.
Michelle Perrot: WluJt might be said, incidentally, about architecture as a
mode of political organization? For everything is spatial, not only mentally
but also materially, in this form of 18th century thought.
In my opinion architecture, at the end of the 18th century, begins to
concern itself closely with problems of popUlation, health and urbanism. Be
fore that time, the art of constructing responded firstly to the need to make
power, divinity and force manifest. The palace and the chutch constituted the
two major architectural forms, to which we must add fortresses. One mani
fested one's might, one manifested the sovereign, one manifested God. Archi
tecture developed for a long while according to these requirements. Now, at
the end of the 18th century, new problems arc posed: the arrangement of
space is to be utilized for political and economic ends.
A specific form of architecture arises during this period. Philippe Aries has
written some very important things on the subject of the home which,
according to him, remains an undifferentiated space until the 18th century.
There are rooms that can be llsed interchangeably for sleeping, eating Or re
ceiving guests. Then, little by little, space becomes specified and functional. A
perfect illustration can be found in the development of working-class housing
projects in the years 1830-1870, The working family will be situated; a type of
Foucault:
8
morality will be prescribed for it by assigning it a living space (a room serving
as kitchen and dining room), the parents' bedroom (the place of procreation),
and the children's bedroom. Sometimes, in the most favorable of situations,
there will be a boy's room and a girl's room. A whole "history of spaces"
could be written, that would at the same time be a "history of the forms of
power," from the major strategies of geopolitics to the tactics of housing,
institutional architecture. classroom or hospital organization, by way of all
the political and economic implantations. It is surprising how long it took for
the problem of spaces to be viewed as an historical and political problem.
For a long time space was either referred to "nature"-to what was given, the
first determining factor-or to "physical geography"; it was referred to a
kind of "prehistoric" layer. Or it was conceived as dwellings or the growth of
a people, a culture, a language or a State. In short, space was analyzed either
as the ground on which people lived or the area in which they existed; all that
mattered were foundations and frontiers. The work of the historians Marc
Bloch and Fernand Braude! was required in order to develop a history of rural
and maritime spaces. This work must be expanded, and we must cease to
think that space merely predetermines a particular history which in return
reorganizes it through its own sedimentation. Spatial arrangements are also
political and economic forms to be studied in detail.
I will mention only one of the reasons why a certain negligence regarding
9
spaces has been prevalent for so long, and this concerns the discourse at' phil
osophers. At the precise moment when a serious-minded politics of spaces
was developing (at the end of the 18th century), the new attainments of
theoretical and experimental physics removed philosophy's privileged right to
speak about the world, the cosmos, space, be it finite or infinite. This double
taking over of space by a political technology and a scientific practice forced
philosophY into a problematic of time. From Kant on it is time that occupies
the philosopher's reflection, in Hegel. Bergson and Heidegger for example. A
correlative disqualification of space appears in the human understanding. I
recall having spokc;n some ten years ago of these problems linked to a politics
of spaces and someone remarked that it was very reactionary to insist so much
on space, that life and progress must be measured in terms of time and be
coming. It must be added that this reproach came from a psychologist: here
we see the truth and the shame of 19th century philosophy.
Perrot: We might perhaps mention in passing the importance of the notion of
sexuality in this context. You noted this in the case of the surveillance of ca
dets and, there again, the same problem surfaces with respect to the working
class family. The notion of sexuality is fundamental, isn ', it?
Foucault: Absolutely. In these themes of surveillance, and especially school
surveillance, the controls of sexuality are inscribed directly in the architectural
design. In the case of the Military Academy, the struggle against homo
sexuality and masturbation is written on the wans.
Perrot: As for as architecture is concerned doesn 't it seem to you that people
like doctors, whose social involvement is considerable at the end of (he 18th
century, played in a sense the role of spatial "arrangers"? This L� where social
hygiene is born; in the name of cleanliness and health, (he location of people
is controlled. And with the rebirth of hippocratic medicine, doctors are
among those most sensitized to problems of environment, milieu, tempera
ture, etc., which were already givens in John Howard's investigation into the
Slate of prisons.
1
Foucault: Doctors were indeed partially specialists of space. They posed four
fundamental problems: the problem of locations (regional climates, the na
ture of the soil, humidity and aridity: they applied the term "constitution" to
this combination of local determinants and seasonal variations that favor, a t
a given moment, a particular type o f illness); the problem o f coexistence (the
coexistence of people among themselves, where it is a question of the density
or proximity of populations; the coexistence of people and things, where it is
a matter of sufficient water, .sewage and the free circulation of air; or the co
existence of humans and animals, where it is a matter of slaughter-houses and
cattle-sheds; and finally, the coexistence of the living and the dead, where the
matter of cemeteries arises); the problem of housing (habitat, urbanism); and
the problem of displacements (the migration of people, the spreading of
illnesses), Doctors and military men were the prime administrators of collec
tive space. But the military thought essentially in terms of the space of
"military campai�ns" (and therefore of "passing through") and of fortifica
tions. Doctors, (or their part, thought above all in terms of the space of
housing and cities. I cannot recall who it was that sought the major stages of
sociological thought in Montesquieu and Auguste Comte, which is a very un
informed approach. For sociological knowledge is formed, rather, within
practices such as that of doctors. I n this context Guepin, at the very beginning
of the 19th century, wrote a marvelous analysis of the city of Nantes.
The intervention of doctors was indeed of such crucial importance at this
particular time because they were moved by a whole constellation of new
10
political and economic problems, which accounts for the importance of
demographic facts.
Now Bentham, like his contemporaries, encountered the problem of the ac
cumulation of people. But whereas economists posed the problem in terms of
wealth (population-as-wealth, since it is manpower, the source of economic
activity and consumption; and population-as-poverty, when it is in excess or
idle), Bentham posed it in terms of power: population as the target of the re
lations of domination. I think it could be said that the power mechanisms at
play in an administrative monarchy as developed even as it was in France,
were characterized by rather large gaps: this form of power constituted a glo
bal system based on chance where many elements were unaccpunted for, a
system that didn't enter into details, that exercised its controls' over inter
dependent groups and that made use of the method of example (as is clear in
the fiscal measures or tpe eriminal justice system in question), and therefore
had a low "resolutiol1", as they say in photography. Thj� form of power was
incapable of practicing an exhaustive and individuating analysis of the social
body. Now, the economic mutations of the 18th century made it necessary for
the effects of power to circulate through finer and finer channels, reaching
individuals, their bodies, their gestures, every one of their daily activities.
Power was to be as effectively exercised over a multiplicity of people as if it
were over one individual.
Perrot: The demographic thrusts of the 18th century undoubtedly contributed
to the development oj this form of power.
Barou: It is therefore quite surprising to learn tha t (he French Revolution,
through people like La Fayette, favorably welcomed the project of the
panopiicon. One will recall tha t Benthtlm was made a " Citizen of France" in
1791 thanks to him.
Foucault: To my mind Bentham is the complementary to Rousseau, For what
is in fact the Rousseauian dream that captivated the revolutionary era, if not
that of a transparent society, at once visible and legible in every one of its
parts; a society where there were no longer any zones of obscurity arranged by
the privileges of royal power or the prerogatives of a given body, or by
disorder; where each man, from his own position, could see the whole of
society; where hearts communicated directly and observations were carried
out freely, and where everyman's opinions reigned supreme. Jean Starobinski
made some very interesting c�mments on this subject in La Transparence et
f 'Obstacle and in L '1nvention de fa Liberte . Bentham is at once close to this
Rousseauian notion, and the complete opposite. He poses the problem of visi
bility, but in his conception visibility is organized completely around a domi
nating and observing gaze. He initiates the project of a universal visibility that
would function on behalf of a rigorous and meticulous form of power. In this
sense one sees that the technical idea of a form of power that is "always and
everywhere observant", which is Bentham's obsession, is connected to the
Rousseauian theme, which in a sense constitutes the Revolution's lyricism: the
two themes combine and the combination works-Bentham's obsession and
Rousseau's lyricism.
Perrot: What about this quote from the Panopticon: "Each comrade
becomes a guardian?"
Foucault: Rousseau would probably have said the opposite: that each
guardian must be a comrade. In L 'E mile, for example, Emile's tutor is a
guardian, but he must also be a friend.
Barou: The French Revolution did not interpret Bentham 's project a� we do
today; it even perceived humanitarian a ims in this project.
}'oucault: Precisely. When the Revolution examines the possibilities for a new
form of justice, it asks what is to be its mainspring. The answer is public
opinion. The Revolution's problem once again was not one of insuring that
people be punished, but that they could not even act improperly on account
of their being submerged in a field of total visibility where the opinion of
one's fellow men, their observing gaze, and their discourse would prevent one
from doing evil or detrimental deeds. This problem is ever present in the texts
written during the Revolution.
�errot: The immediate context also played a part oj the Revolution's
adoption oj the Panopticon; the problem ojprisons was then a high priority.
Since 1770, in England as in France, there was a strong sense oj uneasiness
surrounding this issue, which is clear in Howard's investigation oj prisons.
Hospitals and prisons are two major topics oj discussion in the Parisian
salons and the enlightened circles. It was viewed as scandalous that prisons
had become what they were: schools of crime and vice so lacking in decent
hygiene as to seriously threaten one's chances of survival. Doctors began to
talk about the degeneration of bodies in such places. With the coming of the
Revolution, the bourgeoisie in turn undertook an investigation on a European
scale. A certain Duquesnoy was entrusted with the task of reporting on the
"establishments ofhumanity", a term designating hospitals as well as prisons.
Foucault: A definite fear prevailed during the second half of the 18th century:
the fear of a dark space, of a screen of obscurity obstructing the clear
visibility of things, of people and of truths. It became imperative to dissolve
the elements of darkness that were opposed to light, to demolish all of
society's sombre spaces, those dark rooms where arbitrary political rule
foments, as well as the whims of a monarch, religious superstitions, tyrants'
and priests' plots, illusions of ignorance and epidemics. From even before the
Revolution, castles, hospitals, charnel houses, prisons and convents gave rise
to a sometimes over-valued distrust or hatred; it was felt that the new political
and moral order could not be instituted until such places were abolished. The
novels of terror, during the period of the Revolution, developed a whole fan
ciful account of the high protective walls, the shadows, the hiding-places and
dungeons that shield, in a significant complicity, robbers and aristocrats,
monks and traitors. Ann Radcliffe's sceneries are always mountains, forests,
caverns, deteriorating castles, convents whose obscurity and silence instill
fear. Now, these imaginary spaces are in a sense the "counter-figure" of the
transparency and visibility that the new order hoped to establish. The reign of
"opinion" invoked so frequently during thi<; period is a mode of functioning
where power is to be excercised on the sale basis of things known and people
seen by a kind of immediate observing gaze that is at once collective and
anonymous. A form of power whose primum mobile is public opinion could
hardly tolerate regions of darkness. Bentham's project excited such a great
interest because it provided the formula, applicable in a wide variety of do
mains. for a form of power that operates by means of transparency", a
SUbjugation through a process of "bringing to light". The panopticon utilizes
to a certain extent the form of the "castle" (a dungeon surrounded by high
protective walls) to paradoxically create a space of detailed legibility.
Baron: The Age of Enlightenment would also have liked to see the sombre
areas within man abolished.
:Foucaul1: Absolutely.
Perrot: One is also struck by the techniques ofpower witkin the panopticon
itse{f. Essentially there is the observing gaze, and also speech, for there are
those well known steel tubes that link the principal inspector to each of the
cells in which we can find not one prisoner, according to Bentham, but small
groups ofprisoners. What is very striking in Bentham's text is the importance
attributed to dissuasion: as he puts it, "one must constantly be under the eyes
of an inspector; this results in a foss of the capacity to do evil and almost even
the thought of wanting to. This is one of the major preoccupations of the
Revolution: to keep peoplefrom doing evil, to make them refrain from even
wanting to: not being able and not wanting to do evil.
H
}'oucault: Two different things are involved here: the observing gaze, the act
of observation on the one hand, and internalization on the other. And doesn't
this amount to the problem of the cost of power? Power is not exercised
without it costing something. There is Obviously the economic cost, which
Bentham discusses: "How many guardians will be needed?", How much will
the machine cost?" But there is also the specifically political cost. If power is
exercised too violently, there is the risk of generating revolts; or if the
intervention is too discontinuous, there is the risk of the development of
resistance and disobedience, phenomena of great political cost. This is how
monarchic power functioned. The judicial apparatus, for example, arrested
only a ridiculously small proportion of criminals; from which the fact was
deduced that if the punishment was to instill fear in those present, it must be
glaring. Monarchic power was therefore violent and utilized spectaculacex
amples to insure a continuous exercise of power. To this conception of power
the new theoreticians of the 18th century retort: this power is too costly for
too few results. There are great expenditures of violence of no exemplary
value; one is even forced to multiply the violence and, by that very fact. to
multiply the revolts,
Perrot: Which is what happened during the riots surrounding the executions
on the scaffold.
Foucault: On the other hand there is a form of observation that requires very
little in the way of expenditures. No need for arms, physical violence, or
material restraints. Rather there is an observing gaze that watches over people
and that each individual, due to the fact that he feels it weighing on him,
finally internalizes to the point where he observes himself: everyone in this
way exercises surveillance over and against himself. This is an ingenious
formula: a continuous form of power at practically no cost! When Bentham
13
pronounces his discovery of this form of Dower. he views it as a
"revolutionary discovery in the order of politics", a formula that is exactly
the reverse of monarchic power. As a matter of fact, within the techniques of
power developed in modern times, observation has had a major importance
but, as I said earlier. it is far from being the only or even the principal
instrumentation put into practice.
Perrot: It seems, from what you have just said, that Bentham posed the
problem ojpower essentially in terms of small groups. Why? Did he consider
that the part is already the whole, that if one succeeds on the level ofgroups
this can be extended t o include society as a whole? O r is it that society as a
whole and power at that level were not yet grasped in their specificity at that
time?
Foucault: The whole problem in this form of power is to avoid stumbling
blocks and interruptions similar to the obstacles presented in the Ancien
Regime by the established bodies, the privileges of certain categories, from
the clergy to the trade guilds by way of the body of magistrates, The
bourgeoisie was perfectly aware that new legislation or a new Constitution
were not enough to guarantee its hegemony, A new technology had to be in
vented that would insure the free-flow of the effects of power within the
entire social body and on the most minute of levels, And in this area the
bourgeoisie not only achieved a political revolution, but also managed to
establish a form of social hegemony that it has never relinquished since, This
explains why all of these inventions were so important, and why Bentham was
surely among the most typical inventors of power technologies.
Barou: It is nevertheless not immediately clear whether space organized as
Bentham advocated could profit anyone, be it only those who occupied the
central tower or who came t o visit The reader of Bentham's proposals feels
as if he were in the presence of an infernal world from which there is no
escape, neither for those who are being watched, nor for those who are
observing.
Foucault: Such is perhaps the most diabolical aspect of the idea and of all the
applications it brought about. In this form of management, power isn't total
ly entrusted to someone who would exercise it alone, over others, in an abso
lute fashion; rather this machine is one in which everyone is caught, those
who exercise the power as well as those who are subjected to it. It seems to me
this is the major characteristic of the new societies established in the 19th
century, Power is no longer substantially identified with a particular individ
ual who possesses it or exercises it due to his social position, Power becomes a
machinery controlled by no one, Everyone in this machine obviously occupies
a different place; certain places are more important than others and enable
those who occupy them to produce effects of supremacy, insuring a class
domination to the very extent that they dissociate political power from
individual power,
Perrot: The operation of the panopticon is somewhat contradictory from this
paint of view. There is the principal inspector who keeps watch from a central
tower. But he also controls his inferiors, the guards, in whom he has no confi
dence. He sometimes speaks rather distrustfully of them, even though they
are supposed to be close to him. Doesn't this constitute an aristocratic form
ofthought! But it must also be recalled that supervision represented a crudal
problem for industrial society, Finding foremen and engineers capable of
regimenting and supervising the factories was no easy task for management.
FOllcault: This problem was enormous, as is clear in the 'case of the 18th
century army when it was necessary to establish a corps of "low-ranking"
14
officers competent enough to supervise the tfOUpS effectively during what
were often very difficult tactical maneuvers, all the more difficult as the rifle
had just been perfected. Movement�, displacements and formations of
troops, as well as marches required this sort of disciplinary personnel. Work¥
places posed the same problem in their own right. as did school, with its head
masters, teachers, and disciplinarians. The Church was then one of the rare
social bodies where such competent small corps of disciplinarians existed. The
not too literate, but not too ignorant monk and the curate joined forces
against children when it became necessary to school hundreds of thousands of
children. The State did not provide itself with similar small corps until much
later, as was also the case with respect to hospitals. It was not so long ago that
the supervisory personnel of hospitals was still constituted in large part by
nuns.
Perrot; These very nuns played a considerable part in the creation of afemale
labor force, in the well known 19th century internships where a female staff
lived and worked under the superV/:,-ion of nuns specially trained to exercise
factory discipline.
The panopticon is also preoccupied with these issues as is apparent when it
deals with the principal jn�'Pector's surveillance of the supervising staff and,
through the control tower's windows, his surveillance of everyone, an un
interrupted succession of observations that call to mind the dictum: "each
comrade becomes a guardian". We finally reach a point of vertigo in the
presence of an invention no longer mastered by its creator. And it is Bentham
who, in the beginning, wants to place confidence in a unique, centralform of
power. Who did he plan to put in the tower? The eye of God? Yet God is
barely present in his texts, for religion only plays a utilitarian part. So who is
in the tower? In the lasl analysis it must be admitted that Bentham himself is
not too clear about who should be entrusted with this power.
Foucault: He cannot have confidence in anyone in that no person can, nor
must be a source of power and justice like the king in the former system. In
the theory of the monarchy it was implicit that one owed allegiance to the
king. By his very existence, willed by God, the king was the source of justice,
law and authority. Power in the person of the king could only be good; a bad
king was equivalent to an historical accident or to a punishment inflicted by
the absolutely good sovereign, God. Whereas one cannot have confidence in
anyone if power and authority are arranged as a complex machine and where
an individual's place, and not his nature, is the determining factor. If the
machine were such that someone stood outside it or had the sole responsibility
for its management, power would be identified whh a person and one would
return to the monarchic system of power. In the Panopticon, everyone is
watched, according to his position within the system, by all of the others or
by certain others; here we are in the presence of an apparatus of distrust that
is total and mobile, since there 1$ no absolute point. A certain sum of malevo
lence was required for the perfection of surveillance.
Barou: A diabolical machine, as you said, that spares no one. Such is the
image of power today. But, according to you, how did we get to this point?
What sort of "will" was involved, and whose?
Foucault: The question of power is greatly impoverished if posed solely in
terms of legislation, or the Constitution, or the State, the State apparatus.
Power is much more complicated, much more diffuse and dense than a set of
laws or a State apparatus. One cannot understand the development of the
productive forces of capitalism, nor even conceive of their technological
development, if the apparatuses of power are not taken into consideration.
For example, take the case of the division of labor in the major work-places
of the 18th century; how would this distribution of tasks have been achieved
had there not been a new distribution of power on the very level of the pro�
ductive forces? Likewise for the modern army: it was not enough to possess
new types of armaments or another style of recruitment: this new form of
power called discipline was also required, with its hierarchies, its commands,
its inspections, its exercises, its conditionings, its drills. Without this the army
such as it had functioned since the 1 7th century would never have existed.
Baron: There is nevertheless an individual or a group of individuals who
provide the impetus for this disciplinary system, or isn 'f t here?
Foucault: A distinction must be made. It is clear in the organization of an
army or a work-place, or a given institution that the network of power adopts
a pyramidal form. There is therefore a summit. But even in a simple case, this
"summit" is not the "source" or the "principle" from which the totality of
power derives as from a focal point (such as the monarch's throne). The
summit and the lower elements of the hierarchy coexist within a relationship
of reciprocal support and conditioning: they "hold together" (power as a
mutual and indefinite "extortion"). But if what you are asking is whether the
.......
C;.clII/13 on ca,d
H 422
TV C.m..... enel""".... toek<tbte, weal"". proof.
pteule. Four p""nd.> """"5 m"","y
and
P s by nOI having 10 U50 a heavy duty pan
and !ile 40> Stlll .hade, 22"XSO>XS". Ivailable wlIh
light weight,
hOlal0r and Ian. You can hll I! w1lh a club. under
S100.00
,
Sign.
..
PhOM Wi,e
0,,11e81
...
Circle
•
114 "" catd
feol on rl&dic$\Od IwOrted
3000 foe! in"
llee"... 'equi,"". Rf
Vi"""
GoY! Agency, illO"" e••.
p'if.
of $"gh\ no
Tr.".mi"lon
fCC
lot
URVEILLANCE
"'���,:::�::-'
TV C.mera Iool<;"ng 0U1 0' eye. Exit
O,,� 3'· wlde. 15" fang, 9" high Ale.m box_
ADT I)'p<t, 114 hole "to .....'. Auxllle.-y Ughl
Fi�tu.a . TV lined into YOU", ill OUrO. lIecn"ad
Into w n. TV in wa�:r' wide, 1/40> hol� to "s"e.
MANIKIN.
. TV 3000
VldQO T.anoml."lon
T v Com"",
Induotrlal SUfVuman�a
File Cabl""t·
in.ide
plata.
TV tn. Into
run
cable
Fluo.asunt fiK�u'e ·
�!� �:n: :,",n
CirCle 117 On M.d
drawer, remove rod and
ou\
,ea,
TV with
01
cabinet
right anllta
mounted In yOOt fixtu," 0< ""!S. Vll!wing atM
limo
Is 10
.Id<!. De.k C�lculato." TV IOG.lod m base looking
outside.
16
new technology of power has its historical roots in an individual or in a group
of specific individuals who would, as it were, have decided to apply this
technology in their own interests and in order to shape the social body
according to their,� esigns. then I would have to say no. These tactics were
invented and organized according to local conditions and particular
urgencies. They were designed piece by piece before a class strategy solidified
them into vast and coherent totalities, It must also be noted that these totali
ties do not consist in a homogenization but rather in a complex interplay of
support among the different mechanisms of power which are, themselves,
nonetheless quite specific. Thus it is that at the present time the interplay be
tween the family, medicine, psychiatry, psychoanalysis. the school, and the
judicial system, in the case of children, does not homogenize these different
agencies, but establishes connections, referrals. compiementarities and deter
minations that presuppose that each one of them maintains, to a certain
extent, its own modalities.
Perrot: You have protestedagainst the idea of power as a superstructure, but
not against the idea that this power is in a sense consubstantial to the develop
ment of the productive forces, of which it is a part.
Foucault: Correct. And power is constantly being transformed along with the
productive forces. The Panopticon was a utopian program. But already in
Bentham's time the theme of a spatializing, observing, immobilizing-Le.
disciplinary-power was in fact outflanked by much more subtle mechanisms
allowing for the regulation of population phenomena, the control of their
oscillations, and compensation for their irregularities. Bentham is "anti
quated" insofar as he attaches so much importance to observation; he is
completely modern when he stresses the importance of the techniques of
power in our societies.
Perrot: There is therefore no global State; rather there is the emergence of
micro-societies, microcosms.
Barou: Is the distribution offorces in the Panop ticon a ttributable to indus
trial society, or should we consider capitalist society to be responsible for this
form of power?
Foucault: Industrial or capitalist society? I don't know what to answer,
except perhaps that these forms of power are also present in socialist societies:
the transference was immediate. But on this point, I would prefer to let the
historian among us intervene in my place.
Perrot: It is true tha t (he accumulation of capital was accomplished by a n
industrial technology a n d by the erection ofa n e ntire apparatus ofpower. But
it is also true tha t a similar process can be found in the Soviet socialist society.
In certain respects, Stalinism a lso corresponds (0 a period ofaccumulation of
capital and to the establishment of a strong form of power.
Barou: The notion of profit comes to mind here, which indica tes how
valuable some can find Bentham's inhuman machine.
Foucault: Obviously! We would have to share the rather naive optimism of
19th century "dandies" to think that the bourgeoisie is stupid. On the con
trary, we must take into account its master strokes, among which, precisely,
there is the fact that it succeeded in constructing machines of power that
helped in establishing circuits of profit which in turn reinforce and modify the
mechanisms of power in a constantly moving and circular fashion. Feudal
power, which functioned above all by means of capital levies and expendi
tures, drained itself. Bourgeois power perpetuates itself not by conservation,
but by successive transformations, which accounts for the fact that its
arrangement is not inscribed within history as is the feudal arrangement.
17
Which also accounts for its precariousness as well as its inventive resiliency.
This explains, finally, how the possibility of its downfall as well as the possibi
lity of Revolution have from the beginning been an intimate part of its history.
Perrot: Bentham assigns an important place for work, and keeps coming
back to it.
This is due to the fact that the techniques of power were invented
to respond to the requirements of production, in the largest sense of the term
(e.g. "producing" a destruction, as in the case of the army).
Foucault:
Darou: May I mention in passing that when you speak of "work" in your
books. this rarely refers to productive labor .
Foucault: This is because I have been mainly preoccupied with people placed
outside the circuits of productive labor: the mad, the sick. prisoners, and
today, children. Work for them, such as they are supposed to accomplish it, is
above all valued for its disciplinary effects.
Barou: Isn '[ work always a form of drill or pacification?
Foucault: Of course, the triple function of work is alway.s
present: the pro
ductive function, the symbolic function and the training, or disciplinary func
tion. The productive function is perceptibly zero for the categories with which
1 am concerned, whereas the symbolic and disciplinary functions are quite
important. But in most instances the three components coexist.
Perrot: Bentham, in any case, strikes me as very self-confident concerning
the penetrating power of observation. One feels in fact that he doesn't fully
appreciate the degree of opacity and resistance of the material that is to be
corrected and reintegrated into society, namely, the prisoners. Doesn 't
Bentham's panopticon share in the illusion of power to a certain extent?
It is the illusion shared by practicaliy all of the 1 8th century
reformers who invested public opinion with considerable power. Public
opinion had to be COfrect since it was the immediate conscience of the entire
social body; these reformers really believed people would become virtuous
owing to their being observed. Public opinion represented a spontaneous
reactualization of the social contract. They failed to recognize the real con
ditions of public opinion , the "media", i.e. a materiality caught in the
mechanisms of economy and power in the forms of the press, publishing, and
then films and television.
f'oucault:
Perrot: When you say that they disregarded the media you mean they failed
to appreciate their importance for them.
They also failed to understand that the media would necessarily be
controlled by economic and political interests. They did not perceive the
material and economic components of public opinion. They thought that
public opinion would be just by its very nature, that it would spread by itself,
and constitute a kind of democratic surveil!ance. It was essentially journalism
-a crucial innovation of the 19th century-that manifested the utopian char
acteristics of this entire politics of observation.
FOllcault:
Perrot: Thinkers generally miscalculate the difficulties they will encounter in
trying to make their system "take hold"; they are not aware that there will
always be loopholes and that resistances will alwaysplay a part. In the domain
ofprisons, inmates have not been passive people; and yet Bentham leads us to
believe quite the opposite. Penal discourse itself unfolds as if it concerned no
one in particular, except perhaps a tabula rasa in the form ofpeople to be re
habilitated and then thrust back into the circuits of production. In reality
there is a material, the inmates, who resist in a formidable manner. The same
18
could also be said of Taylorism, the extraordinary invention of an engineer
who wanted to fight against loafing, against everything Ihat downs production.
But we might finally ask whether Taylorism ever really worked?
Foucault: Another element does indeed contribute to the unreal liide of
Bentham's project: people's effective capacity to resist, studied so carefully by
you, Michelle Perrot. How did people in workshops and housing projects
resist the system of continual surveillance and recording of their activities?
Were they aware of the compulsive, subjugating, unbearable nature of this
surveillance, or did they accept it as natural? In brief, were there revolts
against the observing gaze of power?
Perrot: Yes there were. The repugnance workers had to living in housing
projects was an obvious fact. These projects were failures for quite a long
while, as was the compulsory distribution of time, also present throughout the
panopticon. Thefactory and its time schedules instigated a passive resistance,
expressed by the workers' staying home. Witness the extraordinary story of
the 19th century "Holy Monday", a day of! invented by the workers in order
to get out and relax every week. There were multiplefor' ms ofresl:�tance (0 the
industrial system, so many, in fact. that in the beginning management had to
back of! Another example is found in the systems of micro-powers which
were not instituted immediately either. This type ofsurveillance and super
vision wasfirs! ofall developed in the mechanized sectors composed mainly of
women and children, hence ofpeople used to obeying; women used to obeying
husbands and children used to obeying their parents. But in the "male" sec
(ors such as the iron-works, the situation was quite different. Management did
nol succeed in installing its surveillance system immediately: during the first
half of the 19th century it had to delegate its powers; it worked oul contracts
with the teams of workers through the foremen, who were often (he most
qualified workers or those with most seniority. A veritable counter-power
developed among the professional workers, which sometimes had two edges:
one directed against the management, in defense of the workers ' community,
and the other against the workers themselves insofar as the foreman managed
to oppress his apprentices and comrades. The workers' forms of counter
power continued to exist until management learned how to mechanize the
functions that escaped it; it was then able to abolish the professional workers'
power. There are numerous examples of this: in the rolling mills the shop
steward had the means at his disposal 10 resist the boss until the day when
19
quasi-automated machines were installed. Thermal control, to cite only one
instance, was substitutedjor the workers' sight and one could now determine
whether the material was at the right temperature simply by reading a
thermometer.
Foucault: This being the case, one must analyze the constellation of resis
tances to the panopticon in terms of tactics and strategies and bear in mind
that each offensive on one level serves to support a counter-offensive on
another level. The analysis of machines of power does not seek to demonstrate
that power is both anonymous and always victorious. Rather we must locate
the positions and the modes of action of everyone involved as well as the
various possibilities for resisting and launching counter�attacks.
Barou: You speak like a strategist, of battles, actions and reactions, offen�
sives and counter�offensives. Are resistances to power essentially physical in
nature according to you? What then becomes of the content oj the struggles
and the a,spirations they express?
Foucault: This is in fact a very important theoretical and methodological
question, One thing in particular strikes me: certain political discourses make
constant use of a vocabulary of the relations of forces. "Struggle" is a word
that comes up most frequently. Now, it secms to me that onc sometimes rc
fuses to see the consequences of such a vocabulary or even to consider the
problem it raises: namely, must we analyze these "struggles" as the
vicissitudes of a war, must they be deciphered according to a strategical,
tactical grid, yes or no? Is the relationship of forces in the order of politics a
relationship of war? I personally am not prepared to respond categorically
with a yes or a no. It only seems to me at this point that the pure and simple
affirmation of a "struggle" cannot be viewed as a final explanation in an
analysis of power relationships. This theme of the struggle is only functional
if it is concretely established in each case who is struggling, for what reasons,
how the struggle is developing, in what locations, with what instruments and
according to what sort of rationality. In other words, if one wishes to take
seriously the notion that struggle is at the heart of the relationships of power,
one must realize that the nice, old "logic" of contradictions is far from
sufficient to determine the real processes involved.
Perrot:Put another way, and getting back to the panopticon, Bentham not
only projects a utopian society, but also describes an existing society.
}'oucault: He describes, within the utopia of a general system, particular
mechanisms that really exist.
Perrot: Then does it make sense for the inmates to take over the observation
tower?
Foucault: Yes, provided that this is not the end of the operation. Do you
believe that things would be much better if. the inmates seized control of the
panopticon and occupied the tower, rather than the guards?
Translated by Mark Seem
"L'Oeil du pouvoir" was published in Jeremy Bentham's
Belfond,
1.
1977.
Le Panoptique, Pierre
Thus described in Michel Foucault, Discipline and Punish, Pantheon Books, 1978.
2. John Howard made the results of this investigation public in his study: The State oj
the Prisons in England and Wales, with Preliminary Observations and an Account oj
some Foreign Prisons and Hospita/s, 1777.
Robert Wilson
interview
Sylvar. Latrlng.r: How did you
arrive af a theatre which Is not
primarily based upon longuoge?
Robert Wilson: I never liked the
theofr•. I wasn't In'.rested In the
narrative or the psychology. I
preferrlHl the bollet becau,. It
was architectural-my own hock
ground Is In painting and archl·
tectur•. I liked Balonehl". ond
Mere. Cunningham bllcaus. I
didn't have to bother about plot
or meaning. I could Ius' look at
designs
and
patterns-thot
seemed enough. Ther. Is a dan
cer her., another dancer there,
anoth",r four on this .Ide, e'ght
on the oth.r, then sixteen ... I
wond.red If the theatre CQuid do
the some things as the dance and
lust b. an arch itectural arrange
ment In time and space. So I flnt
made ploys that were primarily
visual. I started working w!th dlf·
ferenf pictures
that
were
arranged in a certain way. Later I
added words, buf words weren't
used to tell a story. They were
used more architecturally: for the
length of the word or the sen'
tenee, for their sound. They were
constructed like musk.
For Instance, when Ludnda
speaks in Einstein on 'he Beach,
what matters Is the sound of her
volee, the potterns of her volee.
In A Lefter to Queen Victoria, I
was mainly Interested In the con
trast between George's voice
and
Jim
Neu's,
between
Stephan's voice and Scotty's,
between Sheryl's volee and
Cindy'S. I wanted to put together
these dlHe,ent rhythms. these
Fram;ois Peraldi
A Schizo and
the Instifution
(a non-story)
Let's see first what this title does not mean, then we
shall proceed to see what has not happened to our
schizo, then the extraordinary results on the institu�
tion, and the final interdiction.
The title then: A schizo.
Schizophrenia is not an illness, I and thus, it cannot
be cured, for only illnesses can sometimes be cured.
This statement is our premise, very close to Thomas
Szasz's/ in this particular case.
What is it then?
It is not abnormal behavior either, for not having
yet found solid epistemological grounds for the mean
ing of "normal" we have decided to disregard this
category as well as its opposite term: "abnormality".
It keeps us at least from entering into this horrifying
world of the behavioral sciences which, to us, is noth
ing but the most extraordinarily powerful and danger
OilS system of repression ever invented, because it has
never been able to state dearly the political, economic
and ideological grounds on which it has built its Skin
ner boxes of torture.
Shall we say that schizophrenia is a process? And if
so then, what kind of process?
I'd venture to say that it appears to me as an affirm
ative process in the negative. Something like: "1 am
and I remain whatever yOll do not want me to be".
Let's understand it as an affirmation against.
I have good reasons for not saying that it is a nega
tive process. Freud has demonstrated one or two
things; one of the most interesting is that when Being
and Thinking are structured according to a certain pat
tern (afterwards taken as a model of normality) they
are based on a fundamental activity which he calls
Verneinung: Negation, or "Denegation" as we say in
French. But this negation presupposes a more funda
mental principle: the principle of identity. Listen to
21
Freud: What is bad, what is alien to the ego, and what
is external are, to begin with, identicaL'
This has nothing to do with the schizophrenic proc
ess, which appears as a primarily affirmative process
to be apprehended-but can wei-in the realm of dif
ference or, should I say, using a Heideggerian term, in
the realm of appropriation' from which the principle
of identity stems. But this discourse is becoming hor
ribly metaphysical. Let's drop it.
Let's come back to the word schizo and add a word.
We do not use the word Schizo as a label of seriousness
or quality that would be the proof that I am an up-to
date psychoanalyst daring to face the dark and fright�
cning forces of the unknown, "a la pointe" of a
pseudo modern psycho-something. And I am very well
aware of the dangers, as well as the great advantages in
using such a word.
Let me give you an example of the advantages, in
the institution I am going to talk about. Let's cal! it by
its name: Lavans (it's in a remote part of France called
the Jura known for its exquisite white wine and good
food, which has to do with what we were able to
achieve). In Lavans, we received from the State Social
Services a certain amount of money daily per patient.
That's how we functioned. When we could prove that
more than 350Ju of the children we had in our care were
SChizophrenic, the allowance given daily for each child
was augmented by 72%. A good deal! Don't you
think? Shall I say something that would ring pro
foundly true in certain psycho-somethings. . . Schizo
is good money!
In order perhaps not to disagree with Felix Guattari,
I should perhaps call the process I am talking about
the psychotic process. Felix refuses to consider-as far
as I know-schizophrenia as a process which functions
from the beginning against whatever may be attempted
to reduce and fit it into the Oedipal structure by what
we might call the Family Power Machinery.
THE INSTITUTION
It is nothing but the socially structured field, place
or as we say in France, Ie Lieu, where certain types of
Power Machinery shape an object with the help of
semi-conscious agents and through a medium which is
the discourse in its function of "formation" (whatever
word you want to put before formation, in-formation,
de-formation or re-formation . .).
Le lieu-·the field-is an open institution, at least
without wans and without drugs, both of which, to the
schizophrenic, are identical.
The object in this case, was a group of 60 children
chosen in an age group between l 4 and 20, according
to government regulations, in an IQ range between 20
(something like a living turnip) and 65 (politely called:
Idiots, or Les Debiles!).
different ways of speaking In
order to create a vocal effect, I
wasn't primarily concerned with
the content. At the same time, It
Is there.
When you listen to MoJ:art, you
don't wonder what It means. Yov
Ivst listen. I consider what I am
doing as a kind of "visual music".
Denise Green: Your Interest In
architecture as well as your
extensive vse of visual props
didn't coincide with the minimal·
1st trend of the sl:riies.
W: No. The theatre In the sidles
wonted to eliminate 19th centvry
techniques. They didn't wont to
use pointed decors suggesting
the torest, or a temple, or a
Victorian drawlng.room. This
too
old-fashioned.
was
Rouschenberg was pointing a
gOCiI and putting it in the middle
of the room. You could see It from
all sides, from 360 degr.es,
Ther. was a show cCilied Arl
AgCllns' muslon at the Whitney
Museum which was supposed to
be the summation of the- arts
towards the end of the sixties. I
was lust doing a ploy calle-d The
King of Spain which had r.ally
nothing to do with what they
were dOing . It hod to do preclse-Iy
with on illusion. I was odually
trying to reveal the illusion, the
mystery. I WO$ somehow fasci
nated by two·dimenslonal space,
three-dimensional space and the
illusion that can b. occredit.d on
a box. I liked their formality. The
King of Spain Is 0 Vlctorlon drama
where giant Catholic kings thirty
feet high walk through the
drawing room. There's a compli.
cated pull..y System and no less
than twenty men were pulling
this big apparatus across the
stage. It was obviously a 19th
century concept of the theatre.
All that was hidden behind 0
frame. In the Sixties, they were
trying to destroy the frame. I wos
octuall putting a frame right In
front 0 the machinery.
r
I have done other things that
rebel against those ideas, but I
believe os a philosophy that It is
Important to contra dict yourself.
At any role, I om for aport from
Grotowskl and any kind of ex
pressionistic or emotive theatre.
I even do my best to eUmlnate all
apparent emotion. But this mech·
anical presentation is not such 0
new Idea either. Nilinski wonted
22
his donce to be purely mechani
caL • •
w. r.heaned Queen Vletorla
very ofhtn before playing It for
the flnt time. Each time the
rehearsal was done exactly In the
sam. way, until It became totally
mechanical. By contrast. Chris
Knowl., and I were doing impro
visation. Everything Chris was
doing In the play was largely im
provised. Most of the text of
Qu••n VIctoria derived from
Chris's very spedal use of lan
guage.
Both Raymond Andrews and
Christopher Knowles ,.em to
operate Independe-ntly of our
"colloquia'"
tradition.
What
mode you so receptive to their
own perceptions?
l:
W: I could Identify with them.
When I first met Chris, his mother
soid: "You know, his notebooks
look very similar to youu." So
th.re was 0 common concern. In
the case of Raymond, he didn't
know any words when I met him.
That fascinated me. I wandered
how he thoughl If he didn't think
in terms of words.
G: Ccm you really think ,!Ithout
words?
W: Obviously this kid was think
Ing, and he was very bright. He
was 13 years old and he didn't
know any words. He saw every·
thing In terms of pictures and
thot's how we mode Dealman's
Glance. He was living wllh me at
the time so I conveyed to him the
Idea that we would make a ploy
fogether. He would make draw
Ings-drawings of a table, of a
frog, of various things-and th(lt
became the play. What happened
within these settings were mostly
gestures, movements, things
that he would observe. It W(lS a
language, so to speak.
Then I met Chris. I hod heard a
tape he had done about his little
sister watching TV. I didn't know
him but I wos Intrigued by the
tape. Then I became more fasci
nated with him and what he was
doing with language. He would
take ordinary, everyday words
and destroy them. They became
like molecules thai were always
changing. breaking apart all the
time, many.faceted words, not
lusl a dead language. a rock
breaking apart. He was constant·
Iy redefining the cades.
Chris constructs as he speaks.
The agents; specialized educators, non-specialized
educators, non-educators, a psychiatrist, a psycholo
gist, a few specialists that tamper with the ears, the
hands or whatever
of the children, and
3
psychoanalysts!
We could say that one of the three Power Machin
eries! functioning in this institution was familial; its
task is-or was at the beginning of the story-to
Oedjpalize the living turnip as well as the debile or
(and there's the rub!) the Schizo!
As the following narrative demonstrates, the Schiz
os have made it obvious to the Institution which
encloses them that this power apparatus (which could
be termed familial) functions thanks to a type, a /orm
of discourse unconsciously practiced by the agents of
the apparatus-quite simply, the personnel employed
by the institution. Power does not function through
the substance of the contents, of the ideologies, but
rather, on the level of the form of the contents, to use
Hjelmslev's terms. More generally, it is those forms
specific to communication which the power apparati's
agents are obliged to structure, excluding all other
forms which could possibly manifest themselves but
which consequently must be repressed, forbidden: for
example, incestuous or homosexual forms of
communication.
It was precisely this schizophrenic affirmation
against the unconscious attempts at "formation"
which Jed the employees of these institutions to reflect
on their rea! function and to discover through modify
ing it their role as unconscious agent for a certain kind
of power.
ANALYSE INSTITUTIONNELLE
The main principle on which the functioning of the
institution was based was displacement. There were
few permanent places or functions but rather tempora
ry preferential zones and occupations between which
everybody moved and functioned in a more or less dis
connected way. And in the different workshops the
production did not stem from necessity bllt was elab
orated by groups of people having a common desire to
do certain things together.
These groups functioned temporarily on all sorts of
levels: verbal groups, the sex group, the kitchen group,
the architectural group, etc.
. But the entire staff
was assembled once every two weeks along with the
psychoanalysts. The main point of these "assemblies"
was, to use Guattari's word, to unyoke (desassujettir)
the existing groups in such a way that language and all
forms of semiotic systems could circulate through the
institution
independent
of
any
hierarchical
relationship.
He Is •••ln9 pictures as he is
talking. He is making visual can.'ructlons. Th. same word "the"
Is 1;1 line arid �cu;:h line i. different.
I responded to what h. was doing
mar. 05 an ortlst. I didn't really
try to think it through.
I
I
1M
l: It ••ems to b. very logically.
even mathematically ord.red 01- "
though It may b. futile to try to , , ;
understand what that order ' ,:
l
"
:: ;:: �
r
. hrl5 can organize hl�
language I ontan.ously Into
mathematlco , g8ometrl<:ol or nu:
merkal categorle•• I con't do that
as well as h. does. I hav.to write
everything down, wh� h tcrke.
some time. Chris doe. It natur
ally. Now I can never explain why
something Is done. It lust ._ms
right. Things aren't nece$Sorlly
arbitrary, but I can't say exactly
why they seem to b. so. I think it
probably would have a logle of Its
own It you spent enough time to
figure it out.
G: Can you explain further what
you see in common between Ray·
mond and Chris?
W: They are both highly visual.
The typing of "C" on this diagram
may stand for his name, Chris·
topher, but it Is very visual. Ray.
mond's way of understanding
and communicating with us was a
visual one. He didn't hear the
words.
We hear and we see with
Inferior and exterior audio-visual
screenl. When aUf eyes are shut
-we sleep, we are blind-then
perhaps we see on this Interior
visual screen. But when our eyes
are o en, we see on this exterior
visua screen. If we are deaf,
then perhaps we hear an on
interior screen: If we listen to the
cars, then we heer on our
exterior SCreen.
r
l: Can a play make the Interior
screen more visible?
W: Whot happened In longer
ploys like S'olln Invariably Is that
you get mOrtl' of a balance. The
exterior and Interior audlo·vlsual
screens become Connecled and
frequently peeple will talk about
things that didn't actually happen
on the stage because they were
half-asleep.
Something
else
happened and they began to see
what they wonted to see. I think
we all hear and s_ what we
�;
24
wont to hear and .e•. Tony Con
rad made a film In the sixties that
was lust on alternation of block
and white frames, In one .econd
you would ho.... 204 frames and
maybe you would have one white
frame, then on. blo<:k , then two
whites, .tc., and p&ople would
invariably .ee dlff.rent things.
Perhaps we see all the time what
we wanl to s.e. W. are not
hearing the IUlm. things. Some*
oneone8 mode alcop of the word
"Cogitate, cogltote, cogitate"
and people heard all sarts of
things, meditate, tragedy, all
they wanted to hear. . .
People who duol with deaf or
autistic children seem essentially
concerned with enforcing on
them our language and our own
conventions. You apparently did
lust the reverse. You assumed
that there was something to
learn from them.
L;
W: Right. Chris was In school. He
was doing these kinds of draw·
Ings and he was being slapped.
They were trying to correct It in
stead of encouraging it. No one
was really concerned about his
drawings as a work of art. I
simply said: "It Is very beautiful.
Do more of them,"
L: Do you think yourtheatre helps
bridge the distinction between
"madness" and art?
W: You have an apple [he draws
an apple] and in the center of this
apple there Is a cube, a crystal.
This apple h the world, this cube
Is a way of seeing whatever
Of course this was the basic principle which in fact
gave risc to innumerable conflicts and what I'd like to
cal! sub-liminal repression and resistances.
THE OED/PANIZATIQN:
or What we have not achieved
At that time (in 1969) we were all very much im�
pressed by Bruno Bettelheim's performances in the
Orthogenic school transforming Joey the electric-boy
into an electrician , that is, to "cure" a schizophrenic
child. And the sfaff was also very milch impressed by
the clear writings of Fran90ise Dolto or Maud Man
noni, ollr psychoanalytical WaldkOren of the Oedipal
structure. And we figured out, with the assistance of a
whole range of psychoanalytical literature and with the
complicity of the 3 psychoanalysts (I was one of them),
that (he key to the treatment of schizophrenics was to
repair this loss of reality described by Freud. This
VerwerjulI, reclosure of "forc!usion" as Lacan calls
it, which creates a hole due to the rejection of the
Nom-Du-Pere, the Paternal Law, again according to
Jacques Lacan, which we believed necessary to the
construction of any symbolic order of which the psy
chotic seems to be deprived. With, the Law, the Nom
du-Pere, and the inevitability of castration, we enter
into the Oedipal structuration of the subject.
According to this dear vision of the situation the
schizophrenic has a central hole into which he might at
any minute be drawn; the task seemed easy
: Fill
the hole! So \ve did, at least we tried
and we
failed! and even we began to be drawn into the hole.
How did it happen?
In several steps:
1st step: Hook the fish!
Have you ever noticed the fantastic use of space by a
25
ichizophrenic? Only a Nijinski might have given us an
['dea of how it works. And dumb as we were, we
thought that it was nothing but erratic wandering. I
�old you! We understood nothing! The story I am tell
ing you can only be negative.
There stood all the educators and non-educators, at
the edge of the schizophrenic flow. like fishermen .
And then Claire hooked Mimi,
and then Leila hooked Michel
and then Claude hooked Henri.
happens In the world. In the case
of Christopher, or even Roy.
mond, there was 1'1 Il'Inguage
there. One day I said his nome,
Raymond, very loudly, and he
didn't turn araund. 1 said "Aounn"
and he turned around. It was
startling. He would turn around
and I would imitate his sounds,
the sounds of a deaf person, and
there would be a recognition of
that sound. You could see it Inthe
xx
"
XA
00
Uc
p P p tJ p p p p p p p
OUDDDDD
XX
XX
"
uU
I-' P P P rl P P P P P P P
uU
DOODDDDD
XX
"
XX
pe
Uu
uu
pp
DU
XX
XX
XX
pp
UU
Uu
pp
DO
XX
AX
UU
X
UU
2P
pp
DO
0
i..X X X
lIU
UU
P � f-' p p p p p j.) p p p
DO
00
XXXX
uu
uu
P I -' P i-' P P I -' j- l i-J P P
DO
00
XX
XX
VIJ
pp
UlJ
UU
DO
XX
XX
UU
pp
Uu
Ou
DO
XX
pp
XX
UU
UU
Ou
00
XX
De
XX
U U U U U U U uUlJVU
iJ Ou O D OD D D O
PD
UUUUUUuUUlJ
XX
XX
ODiJUUiJDOD
A relation, as w e said, had been established. But at
that time we did not even try to find out what the bait
had been and how it had been sent to the hooked schiz
ophrenic. Well, anyhow . . A chacun son Schizo .
To each his own schizo.
2nd
Step: Regression
techniques.
and
surrogate
maternal
You all know these techniques and how delightedly
we find proof that regression works when a big boy of
14 shies on his pseudo-marna's knees . . while more
or less sucking her ear . . or whatever . . Or when
he goes back to these so-called primal screams, or the
joyous babbling of the "infans".
Meanwhile a kind of tacit conspiracy was estab·
fished. We continually strengthened the links between
the schizo and his pseudo-mama by sending him back
to her whenever he tried to ask someone else for some
thing. Or by calling the pseudo-mama to help when
ever the schizo did something weird, like strangling a
defenseless young female educat.or. Even when you
strangle, YOIl have to strangle your mother. because
only this can be interpreted in the Oedipal realm.
A short-story: I remember another schizo in another
face. When a del'lf penon
speaks, "Eah Eeyan Eeaah", you
see in the face his nightmare of
not being able to speak the
hearer's own language. They are
imitating us, but they will n.ve,
be able to do that. In his face
when I said "Aoulnn" I sow he
knew what I was really tl'llklng
about. There was a recognition Qf
the sound. So perhaps that's a
language tao, like French is a
language. And that's In the
center of the cube. The language
center. Maybe this is a language
that could be learned, or dis.
cerned. And the Sl'lme with Chris.
topher. The arrangements of his
sounds Is samething you can
learn to do after a while. There
are 2 Cs, and there are A Cs, and
there are 8 Cs, and there are 12
Cs, or whatever. It is a language.
It Is a way of speaking, like
French or German. This may be
another language, too, but it
could be learned at the center.
As long as you say to these two
individuals that you don't accept
their language, then In most
cases It is difficult for them to
accept ours. You have to meet
half-way; okay, we learn yours
and you learn ours, I have nevil'
•••n anyone working with deats,
no one octually that has ever
embrc:u:.ed something like that
and recognl:t:.d their languoge as
a longuoge. They ore not can·
cerned about their lon9u09•.
There Is a sign languoge. but they
go to the sounds. 1 hove never
seen anyone try to relate to a
non· hearing person with their
own sounds and their own
languoge. And the- lome goes
with Christopher, the work with
"outisms." His .chool wos $Up'
posedly the best In the U.S., but
no one th.r. was really In
terested In what the kids were
doing-they were there to learn
our language.
Chris and Raymond both also
hove something in common with
longuoge which suggests that be
fore we learn the meaning of a
word, we respond to the sound.
Sa there Is something very boslc
In longuage, there is a longu0ge
thot's unlvef5ol, so thot was
something else that wos incor·
porated In the thealn" Ideally,
this theatre con be appreciated
by anyone anywhere. I lUst
finished dQing 0 play in Poris that
Is English words. People respond
mostly to the sounds and appar_
ently that's whaf the autists are
doing too, They don't understond
English but th� listen to whot i5
encoded in these words: energy.
lost yeor, Christopher wos taking
old batteries, toping people
spe-aklng ond ploylng the topes
50 thot he was getting these
speeches "v.e-r-y s-I·o·w "," It's
very strang e what you hear,
There ore 011 these other sounds
put In the words,
l: Have you ever thought of per·
institution who had agreed to be hooked by a pseudo·
mama, but he used to change his mother every Sun
day. At the beginning, people thought "It won't last!
He will settle down!" But he did not, he was passion
ately attached to a different mother each week. The
situation became more and more traumatic for the
abandonned pseudo-mamas so that one day the direc
tor called a pregnant female educator into his office
and ordered her to do the following: "When you feel
on the verge of giving birth to your child, hook Peter,
to be his mother-of-the week and then we will take him
to the dinic, to watch the birth of your child. And then
he will have to understand that a child can only have
one mother!"
3rd Step: The law of the Father
But there is no mother without a Father, and as soon
as a!! the libidinal drives have been duly attached to the
"mother", it is time to introduce the "Father" as a
forbidding element. This introduction is supposed to
break the imaginary relationship between the schizo
and his pseudo-mama, and introduce him into the
realm of a symbolic order where the object has to be
known mediately through language taken here in its
representative function.
I won't titHiate you with the subtle techniques we
invented to introduce a threatening papa, but only te!!
you the result.
4th step: The explosion
When it became plain to Mimi, Michel and Henri
that they would have to cope with a third pseudo
something, a papa, they reacted in a very disconcerting
way. Mimi broke three doors, 700 window panes and
all the turntables in the institution within a week.
Henri got lost in the nearby forest for three days. And
the apotheosis of these fireworks was the reaction of
Michel the evening of the day he was told that Claude
would interfere in his relationship with Leila. He went
down to the cellar where the furnace was and turned
27
on a few taps so that a few minutes later, the furnace
exploded, nearly destroying an empty wing 0f the
chliteau in which the institution was located. NaturalIy
Michel was punished and sent to the nearest psychi
atric hospital, pointing out this story's real function in
relation to the Familial Power Machinery.
5th Step: The schizophrenization oj the institution
The explosion was quite a shock, and once we had
dusted the remains of fear from our well-intentioned
hearts, we began to reflect; and instead of trying, to no
avail, to understand once again the cases of Michel,
Mimi, Henri and the others, we began to question our
own functions as agents . . of what kind of power?
We began to suspect our therapeutic pseudo-analyti
cal approach, or at least to question the whole struc
turation we had been trying to build within, or on, or
around the schizo. And instead of asking "But what
have they done? And why?", we began-and believe
me it was not easy--to ask "What have we done, and
why? What are we? And in accordance with what have
we done what we have tried to do? What is exactly our
function in this big bad world? Have we not been de
ceived somewhere along the line? What is our relation
to this institution, to the Power Machineries, especial
ly the psyciatric one to which we thought we had to
entrust Michel?" We could not answer. But something
began to crumble as we were raising questions along
these lines. We suddenly realized to what extent we
were . . yoked-assujettis-to a technological world
to which the Oedipal tool is essential.
And the inter�personnal structures began to change
at a fantastic pace. Married couples began to tfuly
look with undeceived eyes at each other and at what
they thought they owned as their lawful rights. We
began to reorganize completely all the existing
structures, not into other structures but in two
directions of transformation: 1) A political action
against
existing institutions
and
their
Power
Machineries; 2) Moving communities, organized or
rather unorganized in such a way as to facilitate the
circulation of libido and objects according to moving
patterns, other than the Oedipal pattern-ossified with
no other functions than self-reproduction.
6th Step: The complexijication or the Realization of
Schizophrenia
It seems that while the sChizophrenization was tak�
lng place we forgot about the schizo, and in fact we
did. But while a real displacement was introduced into
the institution on many more levels than before, and
also aU sorts of translations from one level to another,
we suddenly realized that the use of space by the
schizos fitted into the new ways invented to use the in-
forming In the U.S. with foreign
longuages In order to creata an
enect that would be similar to the
one you achlava in Europe with
English?
W: I thought about that. yes. I
hava dona something of that sort
with Stol/n: Haf. hap. hat. thera
was 2 hats and 3 haps, 2.3-2-1-2,
1·2-3-2-1-2 [He is tapping on the
labial-thai sort of thing. That
was lust a pattarn of sounds.
l: In your theatre, several things
can coexist an Ihe slaga without
being logkally conn acted. Rela·
tlonshlps are .stablJ,had, but
thay don't have to b. formulated
In words . . .
W : This Is the way we think. This
is the way we are here Sitting and
talking and I am looking ot a pic
ture and I am thinking I've got to
go 11'1 an hour, I've got to be In on
airplane. I've got to pack my bag
-you know, all these things are
gotn9 through the mind at tha
some time while I have this con
versation with you. Actually. I
just did a piace called "Dialogua"
last week In Boston talking like
that with Christopher. I find fra
quently that you have a chance to
express more things at one time
In speaking that way.
Guy
Hocquenghem
We All
Can" Ole
In Bed
stitutionnal space. And that in' this space the relation�
ship with the schizos was becoming more and more a
sort of partnership, I caB it in French partenarite
schizophrenique, and I would describe it as the spatial
relationship between two ballet dancers dancing a pas
de-deux. A relation which functions on many more
levels than the relationship established through verbal
language, And relations which are not necessarily
structured like the verbal language, but are only
grasped by the different levels of semiotics described
by Charles Sanders Peirce and that are now being re
considered, although slightly differently, by Felix
GuattarL' Semiotics perhaps has to be considered in a
sort of generalized Pragmatism: I mean in a funda
mentally pluralized space and in complex systems of
mobile connexions.
To us then, the schizos began to appear potentially
immensely rich. And the less the Oedipal pressure up
PasoliR! wos kill.d by a
swindler.
We all can', die in bed, like
Franco. Th. Italian .xtreme I.ft
Is lndlgnont. M.A. Mocdocchl, In
L. Monde, speaks of a falld"
plot. More perceptively, Gqvl
and Mogglorl .how how the Inc/
dent WClS a m!crofolds' coup: th_
ouossin, Pelosi, wasn', used by
fascism, h. was the voluntary 'n'
strument of r"dsm and th. r.'
fusal of dlff.rence, the day.to
day
non.polith::h:ed
kind
of
fosdsm.
Probably, probably, Some<
thing all through thl. explona.
tlon does nl)t (onvl"l:;o me: the
external and polltlcol I1clur. of
'hi' view point on the murder of
a homosexual. Certolllly you
can', help but 1l'9r•• with ,h.
emolysls of the Pelosi case, you
can't help bl,l, r.fuse to consider
him, too, as a victim. Turning the
�ther cheek Is out of the
question.
At the lome time, Pasoli..,rs
deoth seem� to me neith.,
abominable, nOf even, pe,hap"
regrettable, I find it rather sat',"
fylng, a� for as I'm concerned, So
much leu stqpld than a hl9hwlSY
.
Qccldent,
In a way, I would. wtlJlt
It for myself and for all my
frlenefs,
Sadlon estheticism? I hope
not: It I� only thot 0 fllndomentol
ospect of thl; �toryof the murder
of 0 homosexual, of homosexu!;!1
murder, necessorily eludes the
poilticol onalysts and those who
mean to protect homosexuals
from their potential murdere,s,
on them, the more they compicxified their relationship
to their environment. The question, though, was no
longer how to make them fit into the "normal" world,
but how to open a breach in the normal world for the
non-Oedipalized Schizo. It is in this sense, I believe,
that schizophrenia may be considered as a revolu
tionary process, to use the words of Deleuze � Guattari,
and to me, this has been made obvious through the
effects that the whole process had on the Machinery of
State Power,
THE REACTION
AWare of the fact that something unbearable was
taking place in the institution because, I quote, "of the
excessive number of divorces . . . . and the strange way
of life chosen by the educators", the officials began to
react on all sorts of levels. Cutting financial resources,
prohibiting the use of this or that part of the chiHeau
for security reasons (doors were broken, there were no
Jocks, no fences . . . . ), reducing the staff, etc" etc .
But they had to cope with a very politically wel!
orga.nized group of people, who had already accomp
lished an immense task wjth the neighbors, the shop
keepers all around, the families, with no small debt to
white wine and good food. The attempts at repression
immediately became an extremely violent and
unexpected political fight. including trade unions,
petitions signed by thousands of people, and so on
., before the repression could have any positive
effect. So the officials withdrew their weapons, When
I left the institution. the officiall; were preparing the
second attack: they were ready to accept the new
means of functioning as a pilot experiment, and to
claim publicly that they were ready to help us
financially at the expense of other institutions of the
same type, thus nicely isolating us and turning the rest
of this particular professional field quite against us.
29
rith reality often b
HALDO[
(haloperidol)
hoice for starting
19ht
, drug
"
few
,
l of
Usually
leaves patients
relatively alert
and responsive
Although some instances of
drowsiness have been observed,
marked sedation with HAlDOL
(haloperidol) is rare. In fact,
HALDOL has been reported to
actually increase activity in
patients who are underactive.
while it reduces activity to a normal
level in those who are hyperactive.
HALDOL has been found to
"normalize" behavior and produce
a sensitivity to the environment
that allows morc effective use of
the sodal milieu and the
therapeutic community.5
F
SI
r,
H,
bl.]
mi
as.'
H,
0"
b,
Iik
su
ch
re:
n
H,
ex
uS>
w
It Is the intlmgte, ancient,
and very strong bond between
the nomos9xuQI and his mur·
derer, (I bond 0$ traditlonol os
their delinquent prescription In
the big (ities of 'he Nineteenth
Century. We too often forget that
dissimulation, the homosexual
lie or secret, were never chosen
for themselves, through a taste
for oppression: they were neces
sary for the protedlon of 0 de·
siring Impulse dlreded towards
the underworld, of a libido CIt.
frClded by oblects outside the
laws of common desire. VClutrln,
In Bol�Clc, very well represents
this underside of the civill�ed
world born of the corruption of
big cities where homosexuality
Clnd delinquency go hand in
hand. As on urbCln pervenlon, /I.
Iklt homosexuality hos, from lts
origins, been linked with under
world crime. There Is 0 specifk
"dClngerousness"
which
sur·
rounds homosexuality, homo
sexual blockmoil, homosexuol
murder.
Gavi and Mogglori quite
rightly point out that in the Pelosi
trial, ,the vldim Is lust as guilty as
the murderer. Which i5 certainly
scandCllous, but constitutes 0 dis
tinctive featUre of the homo·
5exuol condition. In the eyes of
the courts ond the polke, there
is, in Iheze coses, no difference
between victims Gnd murd.rers,
there Is but one suspicious
"milieu" united by mysterious
bonds, a free-masonry of crime
where the homo and the mur
derer intenect. Homosexuality is
first of all, and will perhClps for a
short while continue to be, a cat
egory of criminality. Personally, I
prefer this state of ClnClirs to its
probable transformation into a
psychl.otrk category of deviance.
Th. libidinal link b.'w.en the
criminal and homosexual figures
Ignores the rational conc.pls of
IClw, the division of Individual
responsibilities Gnd th. distribu
tion of roles between victims ond
murderers. A homasexuol mur·
der Is a whole, complete Ullto
itself, A captain of the Belgian
gendarmerie writes In an article
devoh.d to the ,Ituotlon of homo
sexuals: "An attentive surveil.
lance of this portlculClr milieu
mClkes It poulble 'A compile a
very useful documentation for
th. dlscov.ry of future swind
lers. murder.rs, and possibly
spies."
"Decriminalizing"
Homosexuality?
Some will tell me that this is
predsely what we're fighting
against. So? Are we going to de·
mond the rational progress of
lu.tice In distinguishing victims
and the perpetrators? Are we
going to require, as do the re
spedable homosexual a$Soda.
tlons, that the police and the
courts accept complaints from
homosexual. who are mistreat·
ed or blackmailed? Will we see
gays, exactly like women, de
mand the condemnation of rap_
Ists by the courts and request
protedion under the law?
I think on the contrary that
even in a struggle for liberation,
homosexuality's hope stili lies
'n the fad that It hi perceived as
delinquent. let us not confuse
self·defense with "respedablli·
tatlon". The homosexual has fre·
quent contact with the murderer:
not only through masochism,
suppressed guiltiness or a toste
for tronsgreulon, but also be
cause an encounter with such a
character Is a real possibility. Of
course, one can always avoid It.
All one needs Is to avoid cruising
In the criminal wond. To stop
cruising the "reets. Not to cruise
at all, or only to pick up serious
young men from the same ,odc:d
sphere. Pasolin! wouldn't be
deod If he hod only slept with his
actors.
This Is what eludes all those
who sincerely want to "decrlml
nalite" homosexuality, to defend
It against Itself by severing Its
bonds with a hard, violent and
marginal world.
These combatants oro un'
aware that they are thus lolnlng
the vast movement, In France
and the U.S.A. for example, of
respectablll%ation and neutrali·
tation of homosexuality. That
movement does not progr.ss by
Increased repression, but r.llel
on the cOntrary on an Intimate
transformation of the hot1tqlexu·
01 type, freed from his lean and
his marginality and finally inte
grated Into the law.
The traditional queen, like
able or wicked, the lover of
young thugs, the specialist of
street urinals, all these exotic
types Inherited from the Nine
t_nth Century, give way to the
reassuring modern young homo·
sexual (from 25 to 40 years old)
31
this is the end of the non-story I wanted to tell,
hope that you won't believe a word of what I
not said.
I. This is a polemic affirmation directed against
entire psychiatric current amply illustrated by the writ·
ings of George Heuyer and his epigones. From the very
first line of his book Schizophrenia (PUF: Paris;
1974), Heuyer states that: "Schizophrenia is a mental
il!ncss." And it is this declaration which probably
serves as the pretext for the practices which he de
scribes as treatment for schizophrenia.
2. Thomas Szasz, The Second Sin (Anchor Press,
Doubleday: New York) 1974.
3. Sigmund Freud, "On Negation", Standard Edi
tion, XIX.
4. Martin Heidegger, Identity and Difference
(Harper & Row: New York) 1974.
5. Fran�ois Pera!di, "Institutions et appareils de
pouvoir", Breches (Aurore: Montreal), No. 6,
Automne 1975.
6. Bruno Bettelheim, The Empty Fortress (U. of
Chicago Press: Chicago) 1967.
7. Felix Guattari, " Pour une Micro-politique du
desir", Semiotext(e), I: 1 , 1974.
with mustache and brief case,
without complexes or aHeda
tlons, cold and polit.. In an ad
vertising lob or sale. position at
a large department store, op
posed to outlandishness, re
Ipeetful of power, and a lover of
enlightened Ilberall5m and cui·
ture. Gone are the sordid and
the grandlos•• the amusing and
the evil, sodo-masochlsm Its.lf Is
no longer anything more than a
vestiary fashion for the proper
que.n.
A "White" Homosuuo/ity
A stereotype of the legal
homosexual, Integrated Into sa
dety, molded by the Establish·
ment, and dose to It in his
tastes, reossured, moreover, by
the presence in power of an
undersecretary who himself is a
homosexual without any fols.
shame (homosexuality Is no
long.r a secret shartJd only by a
few InlflatQsl, progressively re
places the
""",.,e diversity of
32
traditional homosexved style,.
Finally will eome the time when
the homosexual will be nothing
rna,..than 0 tourist of sex, (I gra·
clous m.mber of the Club Medl
f.rrone. who hos b••" a 11»1_
farther than the oth.,.., with on
horizon 04 pleasur. slightly
brooder thon that of his overoge
contemporary.
w. cannot suspect any of
this unl.55 we frequent the
homosexual
circle, a rother
dosed whole which forg.s, eve-"
for the most Isolated homolulxu01, the sodal Image of his I;on'
dillon.
Normalblng pr.uur.s
mol'$ quickly, eve" if Parb' and
the bars of th. rue Salnt.-Anne
or. not all of France. While tn.re
are 51111 queens •••king Arabs In
the suburbs or Gt PI9oll&, a
movement has undeniably be.n
lounehed for a truly white homo·
sexuality In every .ense of the
term. And If is rather curious to
note, looking at ods and films or
at the exits of the gay bars, the
emergence of a unisexual model
-that Is, common fa homosexu015 and heterosexuals_offered
to the desires and Identification
of all. Homosexuals become In'
distinguishable,
not
because
they hide their secret better, but
becau5e the
are uniform In
body and 50U , rid of the saga of
their ghetto, reintroduced fully
and completely not Into their dlf·
ference but on the contrary into
their similarity.
And everyone will fuck In his
own sodal doss, the dynamic
junior executlve5 will breathe
with rapture the- sme-ll of their
PQrtne-rs' after-shove-, ond e-ven
the Pope will no longer be able
to deted anything wrong with It.
A very natural thing, as a recent
film sold. The n.w official gay
will not go looking for 1,15el.ss
and dang.rous adve-ntures In the
shorf·drcults
b.tw.en sodal
dasses. He will surely go on be·
Ing a 5.xual p.rverf, he'll ell:perl
ment with fist.fucklng or flagel
lation, but with the cool good
sens. of sexological magadnes.
not in sodal vlol.nce, but in sex
techniques. Pasalini was old·
fashlone-d, the prodigious re'
mains of an epoch in the- proce-ss
of being left behind.
The Ramones
Teenage Lobotomy
r
Translated by George Richard
Gordner, Jr.
Lobotomy, lobotomy, lobotomy, lobotomyl
DDT did a job on me
Now I am a real sickie
Guess I'll have to break the news
That I got no mind to lose.
AI! the girls are in love with me
I'm a teenage lobotomy.
Slugs and snails are after me
DDT keeps me happy
Now I guess I'll have to teil 'em
That I got no cerebeilum.
Gonna get my PhD
I'm a teenage lobotomy.
© 1977 Taco Tunes-Bleu Disque
Music Co Inc. [ASCAPj.
almost c\'('ry delail of his ('xpcrif�nce, <lnd J('scribcd it viddly i n Tltt
Lrlllrf{ of F('bnIary ! 2. ! 96(\:
"[
\\';-IS
chicOy struck by the godlikf' detachment of the hpspital
psychia trist. Tn he fair, this viiricd 1rOiTl
HUJlI
tn man, but I gl'lt tll('
impression that, tn' and Li r,W\ they thoui{ht IIH'y cou l d cnrc ally t b ing
\yith d rugs :lnd shnck, ill l'l1 urh tll(' SHnw way th,\l <1 mechanic tackk"
engine repairs. The atmosphere q/, tlh: piau' was snch that ()J1(,(' !
beg;an to reC(1\'('r, I tried 10 i{d nut as quickly as pos5ihk, nTH rh()ugll
I
WilS
conscIOus of not bcillR myself I d i d sign lll:'.<wlf ('Ilit 1(1['
days� but I was persuaded
medieal staff was
it
to
;1
Ii,\'.
go back. Perhaps this a U i luck to the'
symp! Olll IJr m y illness.
"Oll the eflc7ct or the dnH';s 1
\\-<1$ gin'n, 1 all1 mor(' S l l rt ' 1 )( I l l :
grou n d . The \Yorst part of the ('xpcrknct· was whcn I hegan i t o
r�('()\'('r. 1 could !lot couu'n(r<'ltc I'm l'vvtl IlljllUI{',� !o.�('! h er. I t'ould
neitlwl' read nor !()l!ow til<' tt'k\-i.�i()ll. Ckcup,lti()llal l herap� !len!nj
a trell1('ndous ('{-]rlft - !lOl tht' actual \\-lJrk, hut t o take ;lU illft'l'<.'st in it
On the otlwr ha nd , just sitting dning nothing lirollg-ht
!hl
rdicL Tlll'
121
34
The Boston Declaration
The Fourth Annual North American Conference (In Human Rights and Psychiatric Oppression meeting in
Boston Massachusetts, May 28-31, 1976, adopts the following posillons:
We oppose INVOI.,UNTARY PSYCHIATRIC INTERVENTION, in"'"ding. but not limited 10 involun_
tary civil commitment, forced psychiatric procedures, and "voluntary" procedures without informed
consent
hecau5l: ills immoral and unconstitutional;
because il is II denial of freedom, due pf(Jcess of law, Rnd Ihe right to be lei alone;
beclIuse il ls a denial of the Individual's right 10 control his or her own 50111, mind, and body.
We oppOse FORCED PSYCHIATRIC PROCEDURES, such as drugging, shock, psychosurgery, re
straints, sedusion, and IIver$ive behavior modification
because they humiliate, debllilate, Immobiliu, and injure;
because they are at best quackery (attempts 10
• 'cure"
non-exislent diseases) and at WOI':'II {onure (bru
tal, painful techniques to control human thought, feeling and conduct.)
We oppose the PSYCHIATRIC SYSTEM
because It is inherently tyrannical;
becanse It is an extra·legal, parallel police force which snppreS$es cultural and polillcal dissidence:
because iI punishes Individuals who have had or cloim to hove had spiritual experlentes, and invalidates
those experiences by defining them as "symptoms" of "mental illness";
because it uses the trappings of medidne and sdence to mask the stX:1a1 control fnnction it serves:
because it feeds on the poor lind powerieS$: the elderly, women, children, sexulIl miuorities, Third World
people;
be<.:ause it creates a stlgmatiud class of soddy whiCh Is easily oppressed and tontrolled;
because II invalid�tes the real n«ds <.If poor people by offering sotial welfare under the guise of psydri·
alr!c "care and treatment";
because its growing innuence in educlltlon, the prisons, the military, government, Industry, and medi_
cine threatens to turn sodety into a psych/lltrle Slate, made up of two classes, those who give "therapy"
and those who receive It;
because it is similar in Importaut ways to the Inquisition, chattel slavery, and Nazi and Soviet concentra
tion camps: thai it cannot be reformed but must be abolished.
We oppose the CONCEPT Of "MENTAL II_LNESS"
brcause it justifies involuntary psychiatric intervention, especially the impriwnment of individuals who
have not been convicted of any crime.
on Psychiatric Oppression
We oppose Ihe use of PSYCHIATRIC n:RMS
because Ih('y are fundamentally stigmatizing. demeaning, unscientific lind superstitious, and propose
thai plain English be used in Iheir place: for e:tllmple:
PlaIn English
Psychiatric Inmate
Psychiatric Instilution
Psychiatric System
Psychiatric Procedure
Characleristic. Trait
Conduct
Dru,
Drugging
Electroshock
Psychiatric Term
Mental Patient, Menially
Disabled, Mentally
HandiCllpped Person
Mental Hospila1
Mental HeaUh System
Treatment
Symptom
Behavior
Medication
Chemothentpy
Electrotherapy. El�trlc
Stimulation Therapy
WE BEI,IEVE:
thai people should have Ihe rigbl In suicide.
that alleged dangerousneS$, whether 10 one&elf or others, should nol he considered grounds for denying
personal liberty; that only proven criminal acts shOUld be the basis for such denial;
that person charged with crimes should be tried in tltt criminal justh.:e system wilh due process of law and
that psychiatric professionals shonld not be given expert witness status.
that al1ention should he rocus.�ed not on the potential dangerollSness of the psychiatric defendant, but on
the actnal criminality of those who use inoluntary psychiatric Interventions.
thai there shonld be no involuntary psychiatric interventions in prlwns; that Ihe prison system should be
reformed and humanil:ed.
that as long as one person's liberty is restricted no one is free.
that a voluntary network of care and support sbould be developed to serve the needs of people without
limiting their rights or lessening their dignity Of self-respect.
thai the psychiatric system Is by definition a pacification program conlrolied by psychiatrists and de
signed to help, persuade, coerce people into adjusting to established social norms. Throughout society, more
and more pe/lple are abandoning these norms. More and more people are demanding self-determinatfon and
community control. More and more people are Hallzing that economic and pOlitical power is concentrated in
the hands of a few, who are determined to keep It-by any means necessary iuclnding Involuntary psychiatric
Intervention. Bul we an:' asserting that as an in�trument of sodal conltol, involuntary psychiatric Inter
vention is a procedure whose time has gone. We are demanding an end to involuntary psychiatric
illlerven!lon and we are demanding individnal IIb'erty and sodal jll�Uce. We Intend to make these words real
and will not test nntil we do.
'
,
,
� .....
Ex-Pall
" ··�·I·"'·' .
' .'""·",.I"
,
""
,
'
'
,h.
" .......
'""'.�
,f". !-"",t, ..� , "
'
", ••",' ft. ,,- ,,'•.,
'
')",·,,,,
I .,/!,,
I•.'".
.,t
'
'
, - " . " ",..,
," ,,",,,� "" ",
II.
.
, ., .,
. ,," .
,
"�
••" " _' - ,,_.. .H, '" •
•"j"•
•• • , . . . .., ,, ,.
. .
.,."F,
.
.
�.'"
'
,I.
. . . ..
""
.f .
' , 1 .,.
' "
--, ',,, ,,
'" � -"
<'
,,
'
:�;:}',;:�:7�:.;:;'�::'"'"'
.
:·".: ::
:�;;:'':
:::
:�
:
�7?�:7
, � . '''' ' ''' " M O ' "m . 1"•••�' "" .".,.... -.......�, '-.-'''. "
�,
": '
:;
.
'�:,:�:�::.'::I
" .
-"
'" "
'-;"'"
• • • ,..
.. .1 ...
.
1'.--
'. "",,-.
,�"
." ," ', "
,.,,,. : [. .,
.
" �" .,
,..' t',
"
Ex-PatIents
and hostility
controlled
"••rloo
k ;1." Tho!..... �f...' ;",,,I,w th"'
-.he wa' .tty C<mcern...t""''''' ,"" r�,
mel;"n nf ho, I'"yr,in\d h. lie, ill"..",
whkll might if>ilicul. wll} ,"" " "'"
filling ho, ",wkal;'''' rr.,,;r,!,,''''''
F...nk;';.a' w<ll. I,,,,,,'"k,n� h" ",.,,1
.:,""" " !,,""'n"
i<Kli"" ",'<:",i�ly ,...
.
<:ju<;�I.';o"
0" ,h. ,,1M' Imnt!. "',tb J....
. .on�
B." ,aid ,he} ",e•• "'� .,,,.,,,,<1
, ,,'
,110 illne,' and Ihat .h<:j, «:1,,,,,",
.I><>u' II
F<.>rm<' 1"""''''' "",,,,,,d 'h••' hd""�
u""""".noJi,,� �) ,""" f;"",I"" ••",j '.,�
ins ,hei, """'icine ''',, ' lit 111<'" ,ml''''
ron, 1"''' '"""",in� "'''''._ I.,.<,I,,,� " I
t...",
'" <"'ph" ired ,"" im",,"" n..< "I ,,,,,
.ioumg 1«,"me,,1 "I'er ..s,,,�,,,�" <\�"
..htn �f",....,
. """.m fe<:l·· (,<rlc_'"
,.dl .. 1-1" ""led ,"") h.". j,"mJ , ,,,,
",",,=m among effective
_ 0'.' aP<" ,h., dl'�"n'm.',,'''''' ''·
''''�Im.,,' "." "" ' -� .....1 J,,,,,,,',
" Wllt" )""-t< ..1''''''''>'''..1 " • ' C ' .
hl.r d <"en f."n� ,�"' �,.,) � w < "" .,.
,lI<r. "nd .r� ,">mm� ""' I' . �,," ..
� humc "�",c '"" em,·""",,-'" .
" '1 d,lf.,.n,
,,,,�!.., ,f·" ,
.
h l!"n�' .,' ,,,. .
"""�,,� "," 1•
f"jU:- l(�lh "''''
H.. �",�.nd ddded_ J " .' "'" '.
'hinl ,hJ.1 aim,,,, �n»'h,n, ",� f>.
'''.'<:<>me rt )"U h.,< .. '<,' ",J,'
'1and'''�
S",,""h l<u'� l l "
'.- '--...
,""';"'",�ndm. ....''''<''"''<. I �"� ..
ke••u'-< J ,uP'
".-�) J "., t<"'''I'h' "r
"" and I(u'� '1'<;.1.. <"dk�'
'h<; fW"� 1�< �,ff,. ",.
l'r>CfrLol h,,�hh '<On,••_ �."." "',, • ."'" '4'<�l n and ,,,,,Mh,,,b ''' I.�,,·
"If �'''<. ''''Ha< ,,"'" - ,,�. -" ,�"
"'"'"""
" �,'<'d de.1 ,,' '"I"r,'" � ,;' "
rr...�f,"" 1H: 1T""\�" """r'_"
�,_ Hei<:1'l ""'.� It.: ",,�,,'.�",,-'
,...." t....ho,t-......;�". "'" fl' " '.<.
""" C�c,,\ _"..,.....:l Ih<, ,,,,.<,,,', "
�""""r\<"l.,) ''f''"� '' ��'�'-''''''''
'." dlffi.;uh
Navane'
(thiothixene)(thiothi
xene
HCI)
P_'_ '-"""''''''''.m." N ''"""",,, , " ',
..1>" ""ul<l h." ,�""tr,-,,," _,,�
,,"mw
l1>< �"l " fu1�",�� h ! N""
u,ro,-.,...,.,.... m ,.� \,....
TI.. ,l........, H. .....'�, \tN'__' h,',
ri.>n' f\q<.>""",n1 .>1' p..." h,··
,....
fI�h4'''''-�: �.:t�".:<' , n II " -,
"�",bnJ, �,I' .-!fe' •• " -.., ...l ,,
June :' ,m --1,,!,,,, lnt ,'�'<"''''- ,' ,
....)dn�m
.
' u•
•·..., '-1'" , .,'
d"J� _,;h12''T'�rn''"'- _,�," <,,_.�,'
" ,,-, -k"",Nt,,_ .,'>.! " -'r-" �-,.'"
"""''-' I'',.."-.l,,,c- I,., ,.,,,,
I"',,," " � 11" "\.,1,;".",,
,,-,.! .� ,-'
'<,',,,,,,,_ ,he',' �I:' ...
_em,,",'''' ,.f ,,,!i' I. ,".�
{,-",,'r" Tl1,. r· ,.,,· ,- � . �",- _�
r" '"'' f,·' _,,__.1\<1 .·n,' ,,,,, !<,.,"
.�" 1"- _ _
CM.... ' l ,'<.1<'
, .�
" ,'0 , 1/,',," 0'
.
\"',--, ,," \h'.t" ,'
I , , , ,,,
j-,'
"
,,,.�
,
'",f ' o'-' ,
:
.
,
�
I'
I'
\'"
- . \!
.
\! " , '
"
,
William Burroughs
The Limits of Control
There is growing interest in new tech
niques of mind-control. It has been sug
gested that Sirhan Sirhan was the subject of
post-hypnotic suggestion as he sat shaking
violently on the steam table in the kitchen
of the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles
while an as yet unidentified woman held
him and whispered in his ear. It has been
alleged that behavior modification tech
niques are used on t.roublesome prisoners
and inmates. often without their consent.
Dr. Delgado, who stopped a charging bull
by rcmote control of electrodes in the bull's
brain. has left the U.S. recently to pursue
his studies on human subjects in Spain.
Brainwashing, psychotropic drugs, lobot�
amy and other more subtle forms of
psychosurgery; the technocratic control
apparatus of the United States has at its
fingertips new techniques which if fully
exploited could make Orwell's 1984 seem
like a benevolent utopia. But words are still
the principal instruments of control.
Suggestions are words. Persuasions are
words. Orders are words. No control
machine so far devised can operate without
words, and any control machine which
attempts to do so relying entirely on
external force or entirely on physical
control of the mind wiIJ soon encounter the
limits of contro!.
A basic impasse of all control ma
chines is this: Control needs time in which
to exercise control. Because control also
needs opposition or acquiescence; other
wise it ceases to be control. I control a
hypnotized subject (at least partially); I
control a slave, a dog, a worker; but if I
establish complete control somehow, as by
implanting electrodes in the brain, then my
subject is little more than a tape recorder, a
camera, a robot. You don't control a tape
recorder-you use it. Consider the distinc
tion, and the impasse implicit here. AU
control systems try to make control as tight
as possible, but at the same time, if they
succeeded completely, there would be noth
ing left to control. Suppose for example a
control system installed electrodes in the
brains of all prospective workers at birth.
Control is now complete. Even the thought
of rebellion is neurologically impossible.
No police force is necessary. No psycho
logical control is neceSJ;ary, other than
pressing
buttons
to
achieve
certain
activations and operations. The controllers
could turn on the machine, and the workers
would carry out their tasks, at least they
might think so. However, they have ceased
to control the workers, since the workers
have become machine-like tape recorders.
When there is no more opposition,
control becomes a meaningless proposi
tion. It is highly questionable whether a
human organism could survive complete
control. There would be nothing there. No
persons there. Life is will, motivation and
the workers would no longer be alive, per
haps literally. The concept of suggestion as
a control technique presupposes that
control is partial and not complete. You do
not have to give suggestions to your tape-
recorder, nor subject it to pain. coercion or
persuasion.
The Mayan control system, where the
priests kept the all-important Books of
seasons and gods. the Calender, was pred
icated on the illiteracy of the workers.
Modern control systems are predicated on
universal literacy since they operate
through the mass media-a very two·edged
control instument, as Watergate has
shown. Control systems are vulnerable,
and the news media are by their nature un
controllable, at least in Western society.
The alternative press is news, and al
ternative society is news, and as such both
are taken up by the mass media. The mono
poly that Hearst and Luce once exercised is
breaking
down.
In fact,
the more
completely hermetic and seemingly success
ful a control system is, the more vulnerable
it becomes. A weakness inherent in the
Mayan system was that they didn '{ need an
army to control their workers, and there-
fore did not have an army when they did
need one to repe! invaders. It is a rule of
social structures that anything that is not
needed will atrophy and become inopera
tive over a period of timc_ Cut off from the
war game-and remember, the Mayans
had no neighbors to quarrel with-they
lose the ability to fight. In the Mayan
Caper I suggested that such a hermetic
control systcm could be completely dis
oriented and shattered by even one person
who tampered with the control calender on
which the control system depended more
and more heavily as the actual means of
force withercd away.
Consider a control situation: ten
people in a lifeboat. Two armed sclf
appointed leaders force the other eight to
do the rowing while they dispose of the
food and watcr, keeping most of it for
themselves and doling out only enough to
keep the othcr eight rowing. The two
leaders now need to exercise control to
40
maintain an advantageous position which
they could hold without it. Here the
method of control is force-the possession
of guns. Decontrol would be accomplished
by overpowering the leaders and taking
their guns. This effected, it would be
advantageous to kill them at once. So once
embarked on a policy of control, the
leaders must continue the policy as a matter
of self-preservation. Who, then, needs to
control others? Those who protect by such
control a position of relative advantage.
Why do they need to exercise control?
Because they would soon lose this position
of advantage and in many cases their lives
as well, if they relinquished control.
Now examine the means by which
control is exercised in the lifeboat scenario:
The two leaders are armed, let's say, with
.38 revolvers--twelve shots and eight
potentia! opponents. They can take turns
sleeping. However, they must sti!! exercise
care not to let the eight rowers know that
they intend to kill them when land is
sighted. Even in this primitive situation,
force is supplemented with deception and
persuasion. The leaders will disembark at
point A, leaving the others sufficient food
to reach point B, they explain . They have
the compass and they are contributing their
navigational skills. In short they wil!
endeavour to convince the others that this
is a cooperative enterprise in which they are
all working for the same goal. They may
also make concessions: fncrease food and
water rations. A concession of course
means the retention of control--that is, the
disposition of the food and water supplies.
By persuasion and concessions they hope to
prevent a concerted attack by the eight
rowers.
Actually they intend to pohon the
drinking water as soon as they leave the
boat. If all the rowers knew this they would
attack, no matter what the odds. We now
see that another essential factor in control
is to conceal from the controlled the actual
intentions of the controllers. Extending the
lifeboat analogy to the Ship of State, few
existing governments could withstand a
sudden, all-out attack by all their under
priviliged citizens, and such an attack
might well occur if the intentions of certain
existing governments were unequivocally
apparent. Suppose the lifeboat leaders had
built a barricade and could withstand a
IN PSYCHIATR
EMERGENCII
HALDOC (haloperidol) injection
��,:��lyagiklted
__.
fr&1JerlIfy w1hn a fl.'W hcu�
can
be odmini$lel"ed Qt any uSUClI I.M, �ite
-fOI!:.-.fy CClI.rilg bed irrilaj;,y, Cf sl�l9"9
....
aKUfar, hepalk
has minimaleffect on cnrdk
or
renallundion.
highly seEKific control of
HALOO[
\hdoperidof
iniection
41
concerted attack and kill all eight of the
rowers if necessary. They would then have
to do the rowing themselves and neither
would be safe from the other. Similarly, a
modern government armed with heavy
weapons and prepared for attack could
wipe out 950/0 of its citizens. But who
would do the work, and who would protect
them from the soldiers and technicians
needed to make and man the weapons?
Successful control means achieving a
balance and avoiding a Showdown where
all�ollt force would he necessary_ This is
achieved through various techniques of
psychological control, also balanced. The
techniques of both force and psychological
control arc constantly improved and re
fined, and yet worldwide dissent has never
been so widespread or so dangerous to the
present controllers.
All modern control systems arc riddled
with contradictions. Look at England.
"Never go too far in any direction" is the
basic rule on which England is built, and
there is some wisdom in that. However,
avoiding one impasse they step into an
other. Anything that is not going forward
is on the way out. Well, nothing lasts
forever. Time is that which ends, and
contra! needs time. England is simply stal
ling for time as it slowly founders. Look at
America. Who actually controls this coun
try? It is very difficult to say. Certainly the
very wealthy are one of the most powerful
control groups. They own newspapers,
radio stations. and so forth. They are also
in a position to control and manipulate the
entire economy. However, it would not be
to their advantage to set up or attempt to
set up an overtly fascist government.
Force, once brought in, subverts the power
of money. This is another impasse of
control: protection from the protectors.
liitler formed the S.S. to protect him from
the S.A. If he had lived long enough, the
question of protection fro;n the S.S. would
have posed itself. The Roman Emperors
were at the mercy of the Praetorian Guard,
who in one year killed twenty Emperors.
And besides, no modern industrialized
country has ever gone fascist without a pro�
gram of military expansion. There is no
longer any place to expand to-after hun
dreds of years, colonialism is a thing of the
past.
42
There can be no doubt that a cultural
revolution of unprecedented dimensions
has taken place in America during the last
thirty years, and since America is now the
model for the rest of the western world,
this revolution is worldwide. Another fac
tor is the mass media, which spreads any
cultural movements in all directions. The
fact that this worldwide revolution has
taken place indicates that the controllers
have been forced to make concessions. Of
course, a concession is still the retention of
control. Here's a dime, I keep a dollar.
Ease up on censorship, but remember we
could take it all back. Well, at this point
that is questionable.
Concession is another control bind.
History shows that once a government
starts to make concessions it is a one-way
street. They could of course take all the
concessions back, but that would expose
them to the double jeopardy of revolution
and the much greater danger of overt
fascism, both highly dangerous to the pres
en! controllers. Does any dear policy arise
from this welter of confusion? The answer
is probablY no. The mass media has proven
a very unreliable and even treacherous in
strument of control. It is uncontrollable
owing to its basic need for NEWS. If one
paper or even a string of papers owned by
the same person tries to kill a story, that
makes that story hotter as NEWS. Some
paper will pick it up. To impose govern
ment censorship on the media is a step in
the direction of State control, a step which
big money is most reluctant to take.
I don't mean to suggest that control
automatically defeats itself, nor that pro
test is therefore unnecessary. A govern
ment is never more dangerous than when
embarking on a self-defeating or downright
suicidal course. It is encouraging that some
behavior modific:-ation projects have been
exposed and halted, and certainly such
exposure and publicity should conlinue. In
fact, I submit that we have a right to insist
that all scientific research be subject (0
public scrutiny, and that there should be no
such thing as "top-secret" research.
All Star (Red) Must Be Shot From Card
To Win Prize
rhis Target Void If Handled By Anyone Except Attendan
Louis Wolfson
Full Stop for an Infernal Planet
or The Schizophrenic
Sensorial Epileptic and
Foreign Languages
We shall see at the time of the noblest, the most glorious, the most musical
("One Hundred Thousand Love Songs"), the sexiest, the most transcendant,
the most altruistic and equally the most selfish, the most excusable, the most
intelligent, especially the healthiest, and the holiest. the most divine instant
that a humanity can attain anywhere and anytime, while the redemptive flame
of one hundred thousand good H-bombs is lit and onc hundred thousand new
happy little celestial bodies are born, we shall see whether we suffer or lick the
flames or if we are too stunned by the shock to understand what's happening
or too blessed, or one or the other according to personal, individual fate,
chance, Providence . . . Or perhaps the blessed apocalypse would come imme
diately after some scientists succeed in producing momentarily four whole
ounces of so-called anti�matter, supposedly consisting of anti�particJes, which
alone would suffice for the sanctification of every one of us, four ounces of
antj�water, for example, somewhat less than one hundred and twenty-five
grams (the contents therefore of one�fourth of an enema, or little enema {or
shouldn't we rather say "anti-enema"]). All dead, all "equal", all good soc�
ialists, good communists, good democrats, good republicans, good crusaders,
good zionists, good islamized . . all beatified . . no more reaction, revolu
tion, counterrevolution, "establishment", consumer society, gadgets, or con
sumption of any kind . . and finally the world�wide revolution consumated
. no more need to seduce the voters, to agree with the leader or the troyka
of the party, to pander to presidents of the republic, to erect altars to dead old
enemas of politicians, to lick the arses of their corpses . . no more need to
fart, to piss, to shit . . no more need to suffer, to make suffer . . . to ratiocinLouis Wolfson's Le Schizo et les langues or "the psychotic's phonetics"
(Gallimard: Paris, 1970), echoes Raymond Roussel in its attack against mor
phology and syntax. Wolfson wrote his memoirs in French in defiance of his
mother tongue (he is American). Although the title ironically intimates that
Wolfson himself is the "schizo", what he explicitly pursues through his texts is
the "Ultimate Truth and Writing". The following excerpt, which concludes
the new version of his book to be called Point final d une planete in/ernole,
attempts to give a "clear statement of the only possible response to the most
important question that humanity in its cosmos should ask itself . . planetary
disintegration, radioactive deserts . . BOOM ! ! ! ! " (Letter of 29 May 1977 to
S.L.)
45
ate, to philosophize on a frightful. monstrous phenomenon, to pray to God,
ail of us being triumphantly in His kingdom. with the angels . . a planetary
kamikase or Massada, a perfect Islamic submission . . .
N "'** *
(date)
Mister President (or Minister, Chancellor, Senator, Ambassador, Representa
tive, Mayor. . . ) Y" z· *
(Dear) Sir,
I have sent a letter similar to what follows to the Secretary-General of the
UN,
I cannot understand why people at the UN and elsewhere, who arc supposed
to be intelligent and who, apparently, like to think of themselves as "good
people" keep talking about the limitation of nuclear arms or even about
disarmament!
If you consider that around three thousand years ago our poor planet was
infected with only 50 million (perhaps a slightly low estimate) copies (while.
certainly. a single specimen would already have been too many) of the unfor
tunate human species; if you imagine having had at that time a pile of good
H-bombs at your disposal and having used them to crumble the crust of this
damned pianet Earth and possibly to convert it into a second chain of
asteroids. a first large ring of such little celestial bodies being located between
the orbits of Mars and Jupiter; and if you consider then what a litany of un
speakable horrors which still continue and are synonymous with humanity
would not have occurred . . . ll What philosopher would have even dreamed.
thirty-five years ago, of thus attacking the so sick matter which we an are?
What philanthropist? What man of good will?
But now we absolutely must not miss the chance-and to have such a chance
is too good to be true-finalIy to bring to an end at last this infamous litany of
abominations that we an are (collectively and individually); and I mean by
that. obviously, in a complete atomic-nuclear way! Don't they say that the best
medicine is prophylactic medicine? The tragedy, the true catastrophe-despite
what the notable liars seem to want to sell us-is that humanity continues .
while the divine benediction would be qualified as thermonuclear or some
equivalent thereof. Not to be of this opinion is to be selfish, criminal,
monstrous. if not stark mad.
Yours faithfully,
L.
P . S . I suppose that all, or nearly all, religions, if one also wallts to look at
things from that angle, conceive of Hell or Hades as a subterranean place. But
if the Earth were converted into a large ring of planetoids around the sun. then
no more "under world" . . . . 1 As go the words of a certain very popular song:
"No marc problems in the sky." And as the Pope said during his trip to the
Far-East: "God is light". and without a doubt included there is the resurrec
(ional light at the time of a planetary disintegration
. the disintegration of
an infernal star.
However, such letters naturally having no perceptible effect, perhaps even
an effect contrary to the one sought, our protagonist would become a partisan
of Violence. of arsons and assassinations, and would hope�a!l the more
naiVely. since a certain ignorance, a certain cowardice, a certain indi fference
reign . . over all-that men and women of true good will would suppress as
.6
quickly as possible the monsters of cruelty all over the world who speak of the
limitation of armaments , . . and thus reveal their "prenuc1ear". outdated, in
fantile, unrealistic, backward, hypocritical, inhuman way of thinking . . . and
likewise a fanatical zeal for turning their backs on certain marvCious properties
of matter which arc known at last and infinitely beneficial. . . ! {It is not
then. for example, visits, be they reciprocal and with a minimum of red-tape,
between East and West Berliners or between East and West Germans. that arc
needed, but rather the audacious attempt to enable all humanity, in as short a
time as possible. to take intergalactic trips through the skies . . . 1 It is quite
understandable that so many made such a big deal over the famous lunar expe�
diHons ("a giant step . . . 1"], which however took a week for the round-trip
in space although our natural satellite is only two light-seconds away. So if you
consider that, flying at the speed of light [300,000 kilometers per second], it
would still take one hundred thousand years [diameter of the disc1 to traverse
only our own galaxy [the Milky Way: 100,000 million { "" 100 billion} stars
among which our sun is only one of average size {less than two-thirds of a
million typographic characters in the present work}] and that it would take
one hundred sixty thousand more years at that same "giddy" speed to reach
the nearest neighboring galaxy, one among hundreds of millions of others and
whose numbers seem limited only by the lone power [extending however to a
distance of billions of light�years] of man to penetrate his cosmos and these
hundreds of millions of galaxies seem to move away from each other at unbe
lievable speeds [an exploding universe, but, alas! not quickly enough for the
great salvation of all Earthlings]
!)
Whatever heights science may attain, it may only make more and more
patent two facts: I . Those heights can only be attained by mercilessly crushing
and walking over mountains of human beings. 2. And indeed be it for this
single reason, all of planet Earth should become as quickly as possible a radio
active desert or disappear through disintegration. Do those who hold power
have to wait, before they'll submit to the obvious, until the world populati()fl
becomes so enormous that more people will die every day than there are in a
nation of respectable size today? Until the chaos and the impossibility o f
finding legitimate meaning are multiplied b y the infinite? Until everyone has
become raving mad? And the "future generations" down here that we talk
about so much, are they anything but mineral salts in the earth, fluid or even
solid water, gas molecules in the aiT, and such little "tripe", which-in the
course of the processes of germination and growth-would become plants
which would be guzzled up by pregnant women or gobbled by herbivores,
whose flesh, in turn, would be ingested by those same pregnant women . . . ? !
The true good fortune o f the "future generations" would b e for them not to
materialize at all!!
To my mother, a musician, who died in the middle of May at midnight between
Tuesday and Wednesday from a metastatic mesothelium (and medical failures) at the
Memoria! Death House in Manhattan, one thousand 977.
(Early in 1972, Rose (M(l)inarsky Wolfson) Brooke, nearly seventy years old-having
witnessed the new tenants upstairs move out and the new tenant downstairs on the verge
of doing likewise, as had others before her, and detecting the apparent worsening of her
only son's schizophrenia-wanted to 'retire' once and for all by selling her three, family
house after h,lVing found a good apartment in a better neighborhood, and to move
there with the aforementioned son and her husband. Destiny (1) arranged that this semi
luxury apartment which she found in Queens (a borough of New York City) would be
located on 138th Street and thaI, five years later, she would die on the 138th day of the
year).
Translared by George Richard Gardner, Jr.
Lee Breuer
of Mabou Mines
Media Rex
Sylvere lOTRINGER:
What is
your last
"animation", Shaggy Dog, about?
lee
BREUER:
The story is simply the proto
typical American love affair circa 1957· 1977.
Twenty years of emotional programming.
SL:
What about the dog?
LB: The dog,
in California slang (we are mainly
West Coast), is a woman who follows, who
has no consciousness of her own but derives
completely
from
the
male
consciousness.
Attachment to the mate becomes a matter of
life and death. Shaggy Dog is a description of
this syndrome that eventually becomes the
energy and motivation for liberption.
SL:
The woman is passive, but so is herJohn.
He follows and reacts as much as she does.
Everyone in the play is passive then.
LB:
That's right. B y the time John is intra·
duced, instead of finding the leader, you have
the image of a man who himself was being led.
So they both are being led by the· fantasies of
each other and not by reality whatsoever.
SL:
Where is reality then?
LB:
Beneath media consciousness, or above
it. Shaggy Dog is an attempt to break the
elastic blanket of media consciousness and
find some base of realer action.
SL:
How can you break the blanket?
LB:
f tried to write simultaneous pieces that
comment on
each other.
Shaggy Dog is
divided into two plays; the sound track and the
image track. The sound track is the story of
John and Rose. The image track is the story of
Eddie Griffm
Breaking Men's
Minds
The use of behavior control and human
techniques
experimentation
against
prisoners is on the rise in the US.
Indefinite solitary confinement, sensory
deprivation, forced druggings and mind
control techniques are being used more and
more to break prisoners and stop their
attempts to fight deteriorating conditions
in US. prLwns.
The most ominous of these programs is
the long-term control unit at the Marion,
Illinois Federal Prison�the replacement
for Alcatraz as the maximum-security
prison in America. Many men have been
driven insane in this unit. In the past five
years, nine men have committed suicide in
the unit or just ajrer being releasedfrom it.
Because of this growing crisis, the
prisoners in the control unit, the Marion
Brothers, have brought a precedent-setting
class action suil against (he U.S. Bureau of
Prisons. Bono vs. Sax be. which seeks to
close the control unit permanently, was
fried in 1975 in the federal cOlirts. III April,
1978 the court ruled in fa vor 0/ the Bureau
of PrisollS. While closing the notorious
sensory deprivation boxcar celts, the courf
aIlowed the control unit to remain open. In
jact, the court justified the use of the
control unit willi one 0/ the oldest and
most
repressive
legal doctrines,
the
doctrine 0/ preventive detention. Under
Eddie Grif
Jin is one oj the Marion brothers. He
has been detained ill the control unit-which he
describes here as "the end oj rhe !ine"-of the
Federal prison in Marion, [{{inois.
49
Rose's attempt to purge herself of the sound
track. The narrative level (the sound track) is
an amalgam of all kinds of pop records-we
must have used 40 different singers-all the
way from Bmy Holliday to Stevie Wonder. The
image track is a bit more obscure, I was inte
rested in Eastern psychology as an alternate
point of view to a
Freudian Of Jungian
approach. In this perspective, the ego is com
posed of five' parts, which correspond to the
five rooms in Rose's house. Each of these has
its imagery, its own color, its own symbolic
shape. The bedroom is greed, the bathroom is
pride, the kitchen hate or aggression, the
cutting-room jealousy and the living-room, the
this doctrine, prisoners can be put in the
control unit indefinitely on the basis of
what behavior controllers call "predictive
behavior"-that is, they can "predict that
a prisoner will join a hunger strike, work
stoppage, etc.
This decision is nQw being appealed. In
addition, the National Committee to Sup�
port the Marion Brothers. organized in
1975, iy leading an organizing campaign to
win public support for the Marion Broth
ers. It is important that they win this batt/e.
If the prison system wins, other control
units like Marion's will be built.
center, is stupidity. The idea is that the four
wings of the mandala aU stem from ignorance,
and stupidity is interpreted simply as inability
to see the truth.
SL: How do you deal with stupidity?
LB: One of the tenets of the so-called avant
garde now has been elimination of media influ
ence, purity of a certain sort: pure sound, no
amplification, pure movement, the minimalist
performance. What I wanted to do is just jump
in the middle of a big steak dinner, in the mid
dle of the whole garbage dump and then look
for a way to jump it. My great thrill is that there
is not one piece of acting in Shaggy Dog that
does not represent a cliche. ! wanted to com
mit myself to cheapness {on my own terms)
and the only aesthetic control I had over this
was
one
of
the
so-called
"incorrigibles" who had come into conflict
with the Terre Haute officials and was
threatened with being sent to Marion.
After receiving an injury in the prison
machine shop where I narrowly missed
losing a finger, I was patched up, ad
ministered a painkiller. then sent back to
work. There was almost a repeat of the
same accident soon afterwards, so I
decided to quit my work. I was
immediately locked up in segregation.
Prisoners do not control their institution.
My insistence led to my being shipped to
Marion.
garbage was how I would manipulate the
jumps.
SL: How do you jump the garbage?
La: I use oppositions. Oppositions are the
base of the acting technique as well as the
writing technique. Of course, the idea of oppo
sitions ! originally got from Brecht (they are the
key to the alienation effect), but I think I ex·
plored them in my own way. Oppositions puH
apart a closed system, the closed system of
popular or commercial emotional manipula·
tion. If you allow your mind to pull apart,
categories will not grab, They will leave a
space of truth in between them so that you will
not
rest
in
an
accepted perception.
The
objective was to pull apart the audience's
expectation so that some new perception had
room to materialize between these various
poles.
SL: A dramatic development usually results
from a filling-in between two poles. A certain
dose of ambiguity is dialectically created to be
later resolved into mental unity. Shaggy Dog
A BEHAVIOR MOll[FlCAnON
LABORATORY
The constructs of the prison are somewhat
peculiar. Some not so outstanding features do
not make the least economical sense, and are
often totally out of phYsiological order. But
these features, when viewed from a psychologi
cal angie, begin to take on new meaning. For
example, the prison is minced into small sections
and subsections, divided by a system of elec
tronic and mechanical grills and further rein
forced by a number of strategically locked steel
doors. Conceivably, the population can be
sectioned off quickly in times of uprising. But
even for the sake of security the pr ison is laced
with too many doors. Every few feet a prisoner
is confronted by one. So he must await per
mission to enter or exit at almost every stop. A
man becomes peeved. But this is augmented by
the constant clanging which bombards his brain
so many times a day unti! his nervous system
becomes knotted. The persistent reverberation
doesn't function in that way. The
,t",d;,";" ;s not meant to produce move
two poles are kept far apart so that
becomes Vls/ble.
image 1 always had in mind was that
jumping a gap. If you pull the elec
far apart, there will be no spark. If
too close together, there will be a con
: too simple. But if they are just in
position, you'll get fft, fft., fft. and
jumps are , the furthest extension
will jump. I kept experimenting
distance between image, sound,
dialogue so that the spark will
the furthest,
'SL: How do you actually create this distance?
LS: I make visual puns on verbal ideas, The
metaphor of Rose's Vogue type of decoration,
of Interior decoration, is the decoration of
one's mind in the light of romanticism and the
attempt at splitting
it. The split is done with a
sword and so we use an axe as a joke because
, axe of course alludes to guitar, and one says
"one's axe,"
one's thing, one's weapon.
wanted to translate this
I
as a visual joke.
SL: In other words, you literalize the metaphor
'in order to create a dramatization. This is quite
a perverse use of the traditional metaphor.
You don't assirru7ate the two terms, you don't
substitute one term for another, you simply
keep them side by Side, and this produces the
spark!
LB: We set up a pattern
o{ this"'- this= this,
etc., and the idea is that it wi!! go on for ever.
SL: The more equal,
LB: The more it remains itself. A perfect
example of this pattern is when Clover, the
child, is talking about the Art World. JoAnne
says: "See yourself as a heavyweight"
and the
boxing begins. This is just the style of assoda
tion 1 wanted to establish. There is a woman
speaking in a boxing metaphor and actually
using Muhammed Ali's measurements. The
metaphor for the heavyweight is a copy of an
Eastern dance image, a certain stance with the
head
bent
over
and
arm
raised.
Simu\·
taneously the pUnching bag is used as a bass
drum and dealt with musically,
child, consciousness of the
So Clover,
the
Art World, is per
ceiving herself as a heavyweight, a masculine
image being spoken of by a woman who
herself is a heavy using a traditional Eastern
metaphor with a very hteral metaphor of the
tends to resurrect and reintorce me sail!'" u,<.",,,
feeling which introduced the individual to the
Marion environment. It is no coincidence. This
system is designed with conscious intenl.
Every evening the "control movement"
starts. The loudspeakers, which afe scattered
around the prison, resonate the signal: "The
movement is on. You have ten minutes to make
your move." The interior grill doors are opened,
but the latitudes and limits of a man's mobility
aTe sharply defined, narrowly constricted. His
motion, the fluidity of his life, is compressed
between time locks. There is a sense of urgency
to do-what prisoners usually do-nothing.
At the end of the ten-minute limit, the
speakers blare out: "The movement is over.
Clear the corridor." The proceedings stop.
Twenty minutes later the routine is repeated,
and so on, until a man's psyche becomes condi
tioned to the movement/non-movement regi
mentation, and his nerves jingle with the rhyth
mic orchestration of steel clanging steel. It is, in
prisoners' words, "part of the program"-part
of a systematic process of reinforcing an uncon
ditional fact of a prisoner '5 existence, I.e. that he
has no control over the regulation and
orientation of his own being. In behavioral
psychology, this process is called "learned help
lessness"-3 derivative of Skinnerian operant
conditioning (commonly called "learning tech
niques"). In essence, a prisoner is taught to be
helpless, dependent on his overseer. He is taught
to accept, without question, the overseer's
power to control him.
But the omnipotent is also omnipresent.
Nothing escapes Marion's elaborate network of
"eyes". Between t.V. monitors, prisoner spies,
collaborators, and prison officials, every crevice
of the prison is overlaid by a constant watch.
Front-line officers, specially trained in the cold,
calculated art of observation, watch prisoners'
movements with a particular meticulo)lsness,
scrutinizing little details in behavior patterns,
then recording them in the Log Book. This data
provides the staff with keys on how to manipu
late certain individuals' behavior. It is feasible to
calculate a prisoner's level of sensitivity from the
information; so his vulnerability can be tested
with a degree of precision. Some Behavior
Modification experts call these tests "Stress
Assessment"; prisoners call it harrassment. In
some cases, selected prisoners are singled out for
one or several of these "differential treatment"
tactics. He could have his mail turned back or
"aCCidentally" mutilated. He could become the
object of regular searches, or even his visitors
52
American boxer related contrapunctually to a
woman in sweats using a punching bag as an
instrument. Nothing is left where it is, it is
always jumped to another metaphor.
Sl:
Your metaphors are not used to mean
anything, only to produce another event,
which in turn becomes another metaphor.
L B: Ultimately the line is
a circle, all of these
events wi!! encircle the area of perception and I
perceive more precisely my own energy inside
that circle.
Sl:
could be "stripped searched". These and more
tactics are consistent with those propagated by
one Dr. Edgar Schein.
Behavior modification at Marion consists ofa
manifold of four techniques: I) Dr. Edgar
Schein's
brainwashing
methodology,
2) Skinnerian operant conditioning; 3) Dr.
LevillSon's sensory deprivation design (i.e.
Control Unit) and 4) Chemotherapy or drug
therapy. These techniques are disguised behind
pseudonyms and under the philosophical
rhetoric of correction.
It's like the Interpretation of Dreams,. but
without the interpretations! In a dream also
language is dramatized according to what
Freud
calls
"considerations
of represent
ability." Abstract expressions afe turned into
graphic, pictorial language which accounts for
the apparent absurdity of the dream. But the
pictures, for Freud, are to be interpreted since
they simultaneously serve the interests of
condensations and censorship. For him there
is a truth of the dream and whatever the
complexity of the transpositions, he wl1l end
up zeroing upon a definite, "originar meaning
to the exclusion of any other. What you do in
Shaggy Dog, on the other hand, is to extend
the process of metaphorization to the point
where it doesn't really matter where you
started from,
and what meaning can be
derived fram it. The technique itself becomes
the truth.
LB: I'm definitely not trying to get another
language from the same story, this is very
dear, Sylvere. It's not telling a story in a secret
language. It's aU circular and that's very much
the way [
Sl:
perceive reality.
Mahou Mines has a reputation for being
essentially language-oriented. But you seem to
do your utmost to upset the linearity of narra"
(ive through a variety of dramatic means. This
is a curious way of putting language at the
center.
LB: I like to write the script so it says every·
myself to
thing. And then I want to commit
performance where language is completely
secondary to the visual
and dramatic dynamic.
I prefer the acting experience where you lose
half the lines rather than concentrating on
getting all the little gems out. I have a perverse
attitude about dialogue in that I do not really
get off on reading it as it is intended to be read,
but reading it the way it is not intended to be
read. My intent is to both understand the Hne
HISTORY QF' THIS BEHAVIOR
MODrnCATION LABORATORY
In 1962 at a meeting in Washington, D.C.
between social scientists and prison wardens,
Dr. Edgar Schein presented his ideas on
brainwashing. Addressing the topic of "Man
Against Man: Brainwashing", he said: "In
order to prodUce marked changes of behavior
andlor attitude, it is necessary to weaken,
undermine, or remove the supports of the old
patterns of behavior and the old attitudes.
Because most of these supports are the face-to
face confirmation of present behavior and
attitudes, which arc provided by those with
whom dose emotional ties exist, it is often
necessary to break those emotional ties. This can
be done either by removing the individual
physically and preventing any communication
with those whom he cares about, or by proving
to him that those whom he respects aren't
worthy of it and, indeed, should be actively
mistrusted."
Following DI'. Schein's address, then·director
of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, James. V.
Bennett, commented," . . . one of the things we
mllst do is more research. It was indicated that
we have a large organization with some 24,000
men in it now and that we have a tremendous
opportunity here to carry on some of the
experimenting to which the various panelists
have alluded. We can manipulate our
environment and culture. We can perhaps
undertake some of the techniques Dr. Schein
discussed. Do things on your own. Undertake a
hule experiment wilh what you can do with the
Muslims. There's a lot of research to do. Do il as
individuals. Do it as groups and let us know the
,
results. )
tcfer to create a double meaning.
;ilild to expose
�t
an attitude toward the line in
o
.·; ;·>Your method�associating, or rather dis�
·-.��fPciating�is also consistent with the
ikistenCe of a company such as Mabou
tJltifJs. If you had to constantly tighten up your
mtitiJrial, a collective work would somehow
Mftiper you; but if you can add up elements,
then 'the existence of 8 group becomes invalua
ble. The more varied the persons involvet!. the
ri��er the result.
La: The three animations we have done so far
are in fact an experiment to define a contem
porary reality for choral theatre. This is also
what Andrei Serban and Peter Brook are
doing. But I wanted to take an altoQether dif
ferent tack because contemporary stylizations
cif the chorus in theatre are all historical. What
I gradually understood through the animations
is that choral theatre is alive and well inside of
popular lyricism. The verbal extensions that
"lead" singers make are even more highly
styled than Greek or Shakespearian readings,
and yet they are perfectly grounded emotional·
IV. They don't seem to have that fake remove
that a plotted historical reading would have.
Sl: T. S. Eliot wanted to recreate a choral
entity by making it nearly invisible, You make it
Visible simply by putting it in its proper modern
context.
la:
The trick is that the true bodV of choral
lyric expression and choral dramatic expres
sion is an electronic manipulation. It is useless
for an actor to figure out how to approximate
these effects when the correct electronics will
give you their perfect rendering.
SL: Did you feel you were making a parody of
the med/a.) I once had an ar.qument over this
point. I don't think you did. What can create
this impression is probably that different styles
keep interrupting each orher.
LB: There was no need to criticize the media,
The wonderful thing about electronics is that it
produces its own irony bV its gloss. You can
always tell that it is an electronic reading and
this allows YaH to separate. It allows you to
feel an overwhelming emotional response and
still you are conscious of how this response
has been manipulated, You feel the machine at
work. So you reaily do get a double expe
experiment set up by the Cuhan
rience, You can totally indulge and you can be
� on e
asked if we were interested in moving an
J(i
totany objective at the same time. People
of
5c\'eral
circular ("I-I!
eavily armed u:lllra! guardhO\!�e.
WfT(' rardy altcmpt(:d
ILl\,
G overnm ent
\
houses with do
AU work was
,
audience and Ruth said, Yes, from one place
EXPERIMENTATION IN ACTION
to another. That's the best definition of what
we tried to do.
Sl:
That
But in order to move people from one
place to another, you need to move them first.
lB:
Identify and drop identity, never commit
oneself to the reality of the drama . . . It is a
very crazy position because ying is always
changing into yang, black is always becoming
white is becoming black, inanimate becoming
animate and inanimate again. Reality is the
energy of the transformation and only the
energy of the transformation.
Sl:
If it had been a parody, there would have
been such a distance that you woulnd't have
been able to move people. They just would
have stayed in place. So you had to play the
game.
lB:
was
results"
15
years ago. Since then "the
have been compiled and
evaluated
many times over; and all but one of Dr. Schein's
suggested techniques have been left intact at
Marion-along with the addition of a few new
features.
According to the Bureau of Prisons' policy
statement (OcL
3 1 , 1967) whiCh, after a test
period, finally sanctioned experimentation on
prisoners,
the
benefit
from ally experiments
must be "clear in terms of the mission and
collateral objectives or the Bureau of Prisons"
and "for the advancement of knowledge." In
other words,
prisoners are expected to feel
inspired
the
at
thought
of
"advancing
knowledge" to benefit science and corrections.
Bur what prisoner knows that he is aiding and
Play the game while showing the game.
abetting
the
development
of
Behavior
be
used
Play it well, but show it perfectly. If you play it
Modification
poorly, you don't have a good enough game to
controlling and manipulating not only O1her
entice peopie. If you are clever enough to get
people really empathetically involved and then
you
disengage,
you've
produced
a
prisoners,
but
techniqw:s
also
to
in
segments of the public?
Besides other things. he is denied knowledge of
small
what he is i!wo!ved in-or rather forced into.
trauma of sorts where people in one instant
The truth of Behavior Modification is that i t is
can see and feel the entire process of their
applied to pri�oners secretly and sometimes
55
as it develops and disengages.
be tied on and then cut off to be
is such an in
that it forces you to respect it.
a way not to drown. It is a way of
the ocean but I'm going to do
to stay on top of it. So
I'm go-
because he dealt with language
deal with a variety of dramatic
you can well afford to keep the
straight (the sound track, Rose:�
stIli cutting it up with all the
styles.
Recipe
through sentimentality for about 3 or
.�:��;:��:��';
, then somebody would start to giggle,
)
SL:
LB:
you can fee! a peeling away of con
a realization of the sentimental
that had gone on. The manipula-
The stupidity of the media is in its depth.
There's a difference between what I am
trying to do, and parody, It's closer to the idea
of ready-made. I tried to take culture as an
emotional ready-made. Now you can only
show an emotional ready·made dramaticany if
you have a perfect representation or "reading"
of the emotional cliche as it is manifest in the
American consciousrless. Without technique,
SL: I was in 8 studio the other day whl1e they
were making a record. They had this incredible
Synthesizer and I understood a lot more about
Shaggy Dog and what William Burroughs
rightly calls "Studio Reality." Not one thing
that will eventually come out in the record
belonged to the original. Actually, there was
no original. Every single split sound had been
manipulated. It is only retrospectively that you
Can grant a record with a unr1y, as if a real
it could never have been shown.
remotely (via manipulation o f the environment).
At Marion these techniques are applied for
punitive purposes, and only one subsection of
the prison population is allowed any relief. First,
a man's emotional and family ties are broken by
removing him to the remote area of southern
Illinois and by enforcing a rule whereby he can't
correspond with community people within a 50
mile radius. Sometimes the rule slackens, but
when the correspondence expresses ideological
perspectives it is enforced more strictly. Families
of prisoners who move into the area are often
discriminated against and harrassed by gov
ernment agencies. Visitors complain of being in·
timidated by prison officials, especially when the
visits are interracial. Children are repressed in
the visiting room. And on three occasions, a
man's wife who had travelled from Puerto Rico
was stripped and searched. This incident caused
great concern among prisoners because it could
happen to any one of their, wives, mothers or
children. Another tactic used to break a prisoner
down is to punish him by removing family and
friends from his Visiting list, or by placing him
on restrictive visits. These types of visits are
conducted in an isolated, partitioned booth
across a telephone. Such restrictions often
discourage families from visiting, especially
when they have to travel long distances to visit.
Officially, dose family ties are encouraged;
practically, they are being severed. And more
often than not, a man's family is looked upon
and treated with the same disdain as a
"criminal" .
Another method of separating prisoners from
friends and outside supporters is the two-faced
campaign waged by the prison administration.
On the one side prisoners are told they have been
totally rejected by society and that even those
who "preten.d" to be interested in prisoners are
"only using prisoners for their own selfish
benefit." By this a prisoner I::; supposed to
believe he was never a partof a community or of
society in general, that his lies among the people
were never legitimate and that their interest in
him is a fraud. On the other side, a brutish,
bestial, and "sociopathic" image of prisoners is
presented to the public. This further isolates the
prisoner and makes him more dependent on the
prison authorities.
But discernment into this sophisticated system
is the furthe�t thing from a prisoner's
imagination, or even his comprehension. It is
impossible for him to conceive that he is being
reduced in the eye-sight of humanity to the level
of an amoeba and placed under a microscope.
56
band had physically played somewhere, at
some point in a studio and produced the
record that you hear. The whole thing is talslfy
made up.
LB: It should be technically possible soon not
even to have the artist in the studio. You will
just pick up voices off old records and con
struct the tones on a synthesizer in order to
produce a complete pop record. You don't
even need a singer. The cliche 1 throw at
people sometimes is that you can't say "I love
you" anymore without an echo chamber.
Because it isn't true without an echo chamber.
The echo chamber has captured the myth of
the expression more clearly than the human
voice.
SL: And at the same time it is the echo of
something that hardly exists anymore. An
echo of an illusion.
LB:
It's illusion echoing illusion.
SL: But if you look at it backwards, you can't
help believing that there actuallv was an event.
In the same way, you can follow a narrative�
life as a narrative-and imagine that there ac�
tually was such a thing as an individual in his
own right. The individual as we
conceive it
(not as we live it! hardlv exists any more than
the original performance of the record. It is a
constant re-creation which echoes something
that has practicallV ceased to exist.
LB:
The idea is that once all this is cleared
away, there is nothing.
Sl: There is the machine.
LB:
Yes.
SL: You can purge vourself of the emotional
response to the electronic machine, but not of
the machine itself.
LB; Now tell me what the machine wants: it
wants to be left alone.
SL: I think it wants to grab mare, to amplifV, to
He can't understand why he feels the strange
sensation of being watched; why it seems that
"eyes" follow him around everywhere. He fears
his sanity is in jeopardy, that paranoia is laking
hold of him. It shows; the tension in his face, the
wide-eyed apprehensive stares and spastic body
movements. Among the general population,
paranoia tends to spread like wildfire-from
man to man. The induced state of paranoia is
the primary cause of the violence which has :
occurred throughout Marion's history.
The pervasive "eyes" at Marion are not
without the complement of "ears". Besides
officers' eavesdropping and the inside spies
trying to collect enough intelligence to make
paroie, there are also listening devices out of
view. The loudspeakers, for example, are also
receivers, capable of picking up loose conver
sations in the hallways, ceJlblocks and mess hall.
Recently a strange device which someone called
a "parabolic mike" was found. It is hard to
figure out exactly how many more such devices
arc scattered around the prison, embedded in
the walt or placed behind cells.
Sometimes a prisoner is confronted with the
information in order to arouse suspicion about
the people he has talked with. At other times,
the information is kept secret among officials,
and traps arc set.
It is a standing rule among the prisoners never
to let the enemy know what you are thinking. At
Marion, a man is labelled by his ideas, and his
"differential treatment" is plotted accordingly.
What life in Marion boils down to is an essay
in psychological warfare. An unsuspecting, une
quipped prisoner-a prisoner unable 10 adjust
and readjust psychologically and develop ade
quate defense mechanisms can be taken off
stride and wind up as another one of Marion's
statistics. Prison officials and employees come
weI! prepared, weB-trained, pre-conditioned,
and well aware of the fact that a war is being
waged behind the waUs.
expand. That's what your play is all about.
New territories, new markets, new posessions.
But it is very dangerous to constantly swallow
new grounds. You also have to digest it. The
media orchestrates the digestion. The process
is very dynamic and the assimilation soporific.
Energy doesn't go against the system,
the
system is energy. It is the very sparks you
uncover. But it keeps checking its own flow
with an endless series of dams, of powerful
representations that pass for reality, and ac
tual/y become our reality.
In bureaucratic
BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION AND THE
MIS{JSE OF THERAPY TECHNIQl.IES
The behavioral schoo! of psychology is based
on the premise that man is only capable of
reacting to thc stimuli of his environment and
that over a period of time of reacting in the same
way to the same stimuli his behavior becomes
habitual and sociopathic. However, through his
cognition and rationalization, he can not only
transform his environment, but also transform
societies, you control things from the outside;
the American way is by far more sophisticated.
You simply market a new product or, for that
matter, an obsolete product under new glossy
wrappings. You erect new values as a positive
object of control and it is the whole complex
of emotions and desires that make up the
normal neurotic individual.
LB: There is . an accent called a mid-Atlantic
accent that is neither American nor European,
it is a media accent. II carries an emotional alti
tude that makes catastrophes entertainment.
This is the way reality is represented. The
media can tell you how to live your life, how
you are supposed to fee!, what you are sup
posed to do and how you are supposed to die.
A laugh track tens you what's supposed to be
funny. It produces a somnambulistic circle, it
creates room for certain power manipulations
to take place in peace. The curious thing is
that even the people who manipulate this
imagery fall into it so that ultimately nobody is
steering the car!
himself into a different social being. Prisoners
are making this transformation.
There is a smail, elite group in the prison pop·
ulation which is looked upon by the administra
tion with great favor because the group shares
the same basic ideals with the administration.
The group's members see the priS01l authority as
a "parent". They think of themselves as
"residents" rather than prisoners or cap
tives-because to change the word is to change
the reality. At Marion, this program is called As
klepieion-which !iteraHy means nothing. The
prisoners call the group "graders" or "groder's
gorillas", named after the psychologist who im
plemented Dr. Schein's brainwashing program.
The "groders" live in a speCial cellblock
which, by prison standards, is plush. They are
allowed luxuries and privileges which regular
prisoners can't receive. They, however, are con
vinced that they "earn" these things because
they. are trying to do something to "better
themselves". Generally, they look on other con
victs with contempt. When confronted with evi
dence that they are a brainwash group, they
58
SL: Representation is total manipulation. The
emotional output of the media Is purely made
up and in many ways, incredibly archaic. The
technology of it, though, is everything but
stupid. Actually, it is highly sophisticared. It
only deals with surfaces. It manipUlates pieces
of sound, fragments of voice� figments of fic
tion in order to fashion full-fledged individual
emotions. So If you kept breaking up its final
imagery and thus disengage (rom its emotion�
ality, you would stand a chance to recover
reality.
LS: The collective nature of our work fits in
with this because it abstracts the persona
across the entire piece. Almost any voice can
be made a viable part of the consciousness as
long as the center is this neutral stage of wood
I
that these neutral voices are talking to.
SL: The voices llre talking to something, they
are not talking to someone.
L B : No one relates to anyone else in the entire
piece. Nor do they in any of the animations.
Ronald Laing wrote somewhere that
schizophrenia is II voice such that you don't
know who is speaking and who is being
spoken to. ' think it is definitely a media voice.
SL:
Rose is speaking through the voices of all the
performers, but who is Rose after all? And the
performers, whom do they talk to? They don't
talk to someone, nor do they talk to each
other. Maybe they address themselves to the
audience as an artistic or aesthetic concept.
LB:
They are actually talking to a
point
between themselves and the audience. The
audience observes a conversation between the
actor and a point In front of them. It is not
direct address in the Brechtian sense. It is rhe.
torical since it is spoken to the ideal abstract
listener. The audience can observe this rhetor"
ic for what it
IS.
SL: The collective entity is given an existence
separate from the actual audience. Since the
audience is not talked to, it has to rake a
distance from the role it is supposed to
assume.
LB:
The play is making up the audience
precisely at the time the audience is making up
the play. I don't like confrontations with an
audience, with all the activist and political
connotations this entails.
OUT
production is a
liule purer. It is an abstract conflict, but it is
also dramatic. It involves all sorts of games,
tricks, humor.
!�����������������!��
t IS a good
·
hOU�!.
conduct
reject the proof and accuse other prisoners of
being envious.
But the reality speaks for it�elf. The program
employs a number of noted therapeutic techniques, e.g. Transactional Analysis, Synanon
'
Attack-Therapy, psychodrama, Primal therapy,
and Encounter Group Marathon sensitivity
'
sessions. The administration's favorite is T.A.
Essentially T.A. propagates the theory that
people communicate on three different levels:
parent, child and adult. These become character
roles. It is up to the corresponding party to
figure out which role the first party is playing.
then communicate with the person on the proper
counter-part level.
What this technique actually does is create an
artificial dichotomy between people, each
straining to fit into the proper character role.
Ultimately, it propagates the idea that the
authorities always fit the role of a "parent" and
the prisoners must submit to the role of a
"child". Although some "graders" pretend this
practice is a fakeout on "the man", it still is a
real social practice.
Other techniques include Dr. Schein's
"character invalidation". These techniques are
incorporated under the auspices of "Game
Sessions" (Synanon Attack Therapy) and
"Marathons" (Encounter Group sensitivity
sessions). In "Game Sessions", members of the
SL: The representation of Rose also is con
stantly displaced: it is a dog represented by a
puppet which itself represents a woman.
LS: Which is often acted by three different
men, one child, three different women.
st: Even though the center is also represented
by the Bunraku puppet. This series of displace
ments from actual audience to idealized
listener, from collective entitY to choral struc
wre, from performers to individuals and from
individual to puppet allows for a growing reali
ration of the media manipulation But there is
a point in the performance where the puppet is
obviously nmnipu/ated for itself,
made to
dance for its own sake independently of any
dramatiration. .
lB:
StYle
is
emphasized- annotated.
To
isolate and cool off the psychology.
SL: The puppet,
then,
whatever her other
ment to the theatre. What about the very last
chorus of the aged was,
moving.
The nostalgic
Dog?
J
thought,
accused of some misdeed or shortcoming.
Before he is allowed a chance to ex-plain (Which
is considered as only more lying), he is barraged
by dirty-name calling until he confesses or
"owns up" to his shortcomings. He is then
accused of making the group go through a lot of
trouble in having to pry the truth out of him, So,
for this crime he is forced to apologize.
"Marathons"
are
all·night
versions
of
literally the same, except that they include loea:
community people who come into the prison to
be "trained" in the techniques. After so many
hours of being verbal1y attacked and denied
sleep, a person "owns up" to anything and
accepts
everything
he's
told.
After
being
humiliated, he is encouraged to cry. The group
These techniques ex-plolt the basic weaknesses
then shows its compassion by hugging him and
telling him that they love him.
functions, represents simultaneously commit
sequence of Shaggy
group accuse a person of playing games, not
being truthful with the group, lying; or he is
quite
You seem to have deliberately Jet
pathos set in. Did you want at this point to
shift the emphasis from media stupidity to
some sort of existentlal meditarion·- to go full
circle from Rrose to Selavy?
produced by an alienating society, i.e. the need
to be loved, cared about, accepted by other
people, and the need to be free. In turn, they are
transmuted
into
"submission
and
sub
serviency", the type of behavior conducive to
the
prison
officials'
goal of control
and
manipUlation. The "groders" will not resist or
complain. Nor will they go on a strike to seek
redress of prisoners' grievances. They are
alienated from their environment, and their
LB: That at their age they could still be so to
emotional interdependency welds and insulates
tally committed to thiS sort of romantic energy
them into a crippled cohesion (of the weak
was, 1 thought, pure dramatic irony, irony ulti
bearing the weak). They aren't permitted to dis
mately concerned in not being funny so much
cuss these tC(:hniques outside the group because
as being moving. Beyond that point, there is a
one of the pre-conditions for admittance is a
final commitment to a cathartic experience, a
traditional experience. No matter how much
art IS played with in the piece, it IS not a final
bond to secrecy. Yet almost anyone can spot a
commitment to art, as most conceptual the&
Some years ago, the pri�on popUlation wanted
tres would do, it is a final commitment to the
to do them bodily harm because they allowed
"groder' because the light has gone out in his
eyes.
theatre. It's anowing empathy to grow and you
themselves to be used as guinea pigs, and
needed almost a classic Brechtian moment to
because the techniques developed would be used
cut it at that particular point.
Sl: This is the power failure.
lS: Yes.
The power failure is the classic meta
on other prisoners and other people in the
outside world. Today, they are generally looked
upon as menta! enemies. So prisoners just leave
them alone. Nevertheless,
the brainwashing
phor for it all the way through. Seeing the light
through the power, I guess, is the game that is'
techniques are still finding their way into
communities ill the outside world-under a
being played between the lighter and the
lighted.
And the "groders" still have hopes of joining
SL: But the light that you see during the
power faifure, the actual lighter held by an
number of pseudonyms other than Asklepieion.
these programs when
spread.
They
will
they
arc
become
sufficiently
"therapeutic
technicians". This is what Dr. Groder laid out in
actor, is still part of the power.
his "Master Plan", the utilizing of prisoners as
L8: And it is held by your own hand.
couriers
of
the technique back
into
the
Wendy Oarke
Aron meant when he testified at the
Love Japes
control revolutionary attitudes in the prison
community. It is also what former warden Ralph
1975 Bono
vs. Saxbe trial (10 dose the Control Unit) that
"the purpose of the Marion control unit is to
system and in the society at large". What the
"groders" fail to realize is that even as "thera_
pists" they will remain under observation long
after their release from prison-under what is':
called "post-release follow_'
eUphemistically
through. "
CHEMOTHERAPY:
DRUGS
THE
MISUSE
OF
Chemotherapy is conducted four times daily
at
Marion.
The
loudspeaker
announces:
" Control medication in the hospital . . . pill line. "
Valium, librium, thorazine and other "chemical
billy-clubs"
The 'love tapes', a series of 3mrn,vldeo"tapes,
were made by participants of variOUS ages and
ethnic backgrounds sitting alone in a room talk·
ing about love white sentimental music ran in
the background. The three following partici
pants are from LA., Calif.
KATHERINE.
like gumdrops.
way into the food. For example, the strange
mon1h
of
December,
1974,
recorded
five
unrelated, inexplicable stabbings. During the
same
time,
eight
prisoners
suffered
from
hallucinations in the "hole" and had to be
treated (with thorazine injections). Drugs are
55.
often prescribed for minor ailments and are
I just came from the therapist and I think it was
the last time. He asked me what's going on, as a
matter of fact I had to go to him, I had a deep
depression, but it's over, and I said to him every
thing is fine, the only thing is I wish I would be in
love again, reaUy really deeply in love. And of
course as the years pass and I get older, it's not
as easy as it was when I was
are handed out
Sometimes the drugs mysteriously make their
16 and 18 and fel! in
love all the time and thought that was the real
commonly suggested to prisoners as a panacea
for
all
the
psychological
i!!-effects
of
incarceration. Some drugs such as prolixin make
prisoners want to commit suicide. Some attempt
it; some succeed,
THE END OF THE LINE:
THE LONG·TERM CONTROL UNIT
Segregation is the punitive aspect of the
one, the big one. And funny enough when it's
Behavior
over then you think 'It can never happen again,
euphemisticaUy
referred
In
Modification
program.
to
as
It
is
"aversive
and you are terribly sad and think it's over, never
conditioning . "
again. And there it is, around the corner there is
conditioned to avoid solitary confinement, and
someone else, and you think I was never as
10 do this requires some degree of conformity
much in love as this time, No it wasn't that
many times, of course, and it doesn't change as
one gets older, ! get older. I wish ! would be 20
short,
prisoners
are
and cooperation. But the "hole" remains open
for what prison authorities and Dr. Schein call
" natural leaders" . These prisoners can be pulled
or 30 years younger, but I have the same feel·
from population on "investigation" and held in
ings and the same longings, maybe even more
solitary
so. And ! think gee wiz maybe this time I won't
investigation is over. During the whole ordeal,
make this or that mistake and, and ah, but
he is not told what the inquiry is about-unless
where is he? Where is he? Dh I can't complain I
he is finally charged with an infraction of the
confinement
until
the
so-calJed
have a lot of friends, good friends some who like
rules. If the prison authorities think that the
me and love me but that passionate feeling that
Behavior
is so important, that I would !ike to have. It's not
enough to love it's even more important to love,
that is a fantastic feeling. that just makes you
Modification
techniques
will
eventually work on the prisoner, he is sent (0
short-term segregation, If not, they use the last
legal weapon in the federal prison system: the
..
•,,eative,
f:�
61
your
long-term control unit.
The long-term control unit is the "end of the
line" in the federal prison system. Since there is
i,)u bury yourself and maybe even overwork
r· d do aU kinds of things and look fOf things, no place lower throughout all of society, it is the
.
'ut,
.
. so I'm still hoping. The year is not com end of the line for society also, Just as the threat
over. It's the 21st of December, the be
'Ietely
of imprisonment controls society. so is Marion
.
.
the control mechanism for the prison systems;
'Inning of winter.
.
ultimately the long-term control unit controls
Marion.
EGINA. 35.
'.
Usually a prisoner doesn't know specifically
ell here I am getting to talk about love and I'm
'
etting a little nervous cause it's a hard topic.
why he ha� been sent to the Control Unit. And
here are many ways that I feel love. I feel love
he Usually doesn't know how long he will be
.
i:. r my children, I feel love for my women
there. A prisoner is told he is being placed on
friends. I just experienced a nice new affair.
30-day observation and that he has the right to
i,That experience was "L OVEly" . It made me be
appeal the decision if he wishes. Until recently,
Mil touch with old, old romantic feelings of being most prisoners simply waived the appeal because
n love, feeling happy and anxious and excited, a
they were given the impre'l.�ion that they would
'
time when I wasn't thinking of anything in par
be getting out soon.
ticular, but I just had this wonderful feeling. And
In the control unit a prisoner does only two
it's !ike exhilarating. ExhHara1ing. It's a nice fee!·
things-recreate
and
shower.
Although
Jng. And all of a sudden you get a feeling from
everyone recognizes that the work i,;
the other person that it's over. And I've experi
exploitative, it is generally considered a
'enced a collusion with me and my fantasies' and
privilege. The rest of the control unit prisoners
my illusions. And the reality is that his feelings
spend 23 V1. hours a day locked in their cells
ended before my feelings ended and it was hard
(which are smaller than the average dog' kennel).
to deal with, it was very hard. But because I
He sees the Control Unit committee for about 30
have other love relationships with women, other
seconds once a month to receive a decision on
men, my children, older people, flowers, trees
his "adjustJ1lent rating". He may see a
the sky, I guess just feelings, I was able to work
caseworker, the counselor or the educational
through with some anxious feelings of depres
supervisor for books. Other than' that, he
sion and sadness. And love just does create all
deteriorates.
The cell itself contains a flat steel slab jutting
of those wonderful wonderful feelings that we
from the wall. Overlaying the slab is a one-inch
dream about, fhat we read about, that we see in
piece of foam wrapped in coarse plastic. This is
films. There's that old song I remember about a
supposed to be a bed. Yet it cuts so deeply into
stranger across a crowded room, and I still have
the body. After a few days, you are totally
that Ulusion that someday I'm going to meet that
numb. Feelings become indistinct, emotions
stranger and he's going to appear- It's that old
unpredictable.
Cinderella story, it is. I really bought into the
Besides these methods of torture (which is
fantasy of what newspapers and magazines and
what they are), there is also extreme cold
films have told me that I should feel about love.
conditioning in the winter and lack of
And my real feelings when I express them, es·
ventilation in the summer. Hot and cold water
pecially my last affair, that person I think was
manipulation is carried out in the showers.
shOCked that I could be so open and so vulner·
Shock waves are administered to the brain when
able. And it was a wonderful time, 2 wonderful
guards bang a rubber mallett against the steel
months with him, different feelings, different
bars. Then there is outright brutality, mainly in
emotions. It was very nice and I hope to find
the form of beatings. The suicide rate in the
someone else again soon.
Control Unit is five times the rate in genera!
population at Marion.
ElIOT, 30.
At the root of the Control Unit's Behavior
You know I cry in movies sometimes over the
Modification Program, though, is indefinite
weirdest things, but then when I want to, you
confinement. This is perhaps the most difficult
know, when ! really want to fee! something I
aspect of the Control Unit to communicate to
can't, and I know I should, and I want to, but
I'm locked in, you know. It's like with your fam·
the public. Yet a testament to this policy was a
ily, you know, you love them because somehow
man named Hiller "Red" Hayes. After 13 years
in solitary confinement (nearly six in the control
they're your family, but I don't reaUy like them.
.:
.
"ark,
.
�I'
�
;1
that helps your art, that helps
that makes your life. Yes if it's not there
62
You know, somehow would I really love 'em if I
just ran into them on the street, nope. But there
are people that I want to love, but somehow I
just can not let it out. I'm still not at the stage
where I can feel love. And I reaUy want to. And
so people come and they go and you want to
love them, but you never could tell them that.
And so they leave and they never know that you
loved them. So people end up thinking that
you're something you're not. Because you
never could express yourself. You couldn't love
unit), he became the "boogie man" of the
prison system-the living/dying example of
what can happen to any prisoner. The more he
deteriorated in his own skeleton, the mOre
prisoners could expect to wane in his likeness.
He died in the unit in August, 1977.
Tn essence, the Unit is a Death Row for the
living. And the silent implications of Behavior
Modification speak their sharpest and dearest
ultimatum: CONFORM OR DIE.
them and you couldn't hate them. Because
when you love them you can hate them. It's the
same way, I COuldn't love them-I have a prab·
lem hating them. So then you say, what the hell
do I really feel? So you let it all out in a movie,
over some made·up situation, when you get
tears in your eyes. Because you wish you could
at least be !ike the movie.
I. Write letters urging that the Marion control
unit be dosed completely to: Judge James
Foreman, U.S. District Court, 750 Missouri
Avenue, E. St. Louis, Illinois 62202. Infor_
mation: Nafional Committee to Support the
Marion Brothers 4556a Oakland, St. Louis,
Missouri 63110
Ol'ftll.'t'El!ttrle
$hoeil,l!l!it(lPY ��(/r<;h)I
I" (lvld.." <H(<I,,,,I(> fi...."''I(>II<>od$, Sttlnd,
..d �o;k.
Antidisestablishment Totalitarism
Sylvere I,OTRINGER: How did you get to
rock?
POLICEBAND: Mostly through the tech
nology of it, being saddled with the various
instruments and the noise and the ampli
fier. lust being attracted to it as an object.
S: Did you start working by yourself from
the very beginning?
PB: No. I found out what the macpines
were capable of. They led me straight to
Policeband. It was almost as if the techno
logy applied its own politics.
S: Are you interested in politics?
PH: I like the news that comes out of poli
tics. The one statement that this happened
or that happened that I get over the radio.
Politics is an exchange of paper. I hate
paper, the feel of it.
S: Didn't you write before?
PH: I did, but not on papeL On tapes.
S: Why did you call yourself Policeband
a collective name?
PB: I see myself as being a lead singer with
back·up musicians. The buzzers and the
amplifiers are quite out of control. They
definitely are like a band.
S: The text you read is not yours. Do you
choose it at random?
PO; I borrow randomly hut it's my random
S: What is your criterion of choke?
PB: It has to do with time, filling up the
space. It comes through the headset. I
repeat it or I improvise with it. Mostly I re·
peat it. It comes from various sources.
Directly from the police themselves, or
from something I myself have said into a
tape recorder, or directly from a radio. I
have it plugged directly into a radio so that
I can recite the weather if I wish. Or they
have these scanners that enable you to
monitor the police communications and the
F.B.I. as well. The sources are very immed
iate and I have to react to them immediate
ly. It's the raw material I respond to
directly. I incorporate it. I need it. Without
it I would just be another cabaret pianist.
S: What about the police?
PB: They're always looking for trouble.
It's always looking for them. They're
obliged to respond to very random input.
Random violence. They don't know where
its coming from or why.
S: Don't they also produce it?
PO: They produce it themselves if they get
bored.
S: Do
you think the police are that
repressed?
PO: The police are incredibly repressed.
They're obliged to uphold all sorts of rules
and regulations that they feel alien to.
They'd just rather go out and do whatever
they feel like. I know it. And yet, they can't
do it. It's not like Mexico where you can
kill the criminal immediately upon discov
ery. Quite frequently the crime becomes
irrelevant to whatever procedure follows it
or instigates it, or it just becomes a theatri
cal procedure. It just continues in the
theatre of the courts and right back to the
streets again where it starts all over.
S: So what is not theatre in this society?
PH: In our society, nothing. America is the
entertainment capital of the world.
S: At an levels?
PH: I think so.
S: Sex is theatre?
PO: Don't you know it.
S: What about drugs?
PO: I don't take drugs.
S: You never did?
PO: No, I'm an athe1ete and drugs oilly
interfere with the body's ability to maintain
its own sense of self.
. The body, it's s-o
powerful, it's a fascist, the b-ody.
S: Why do you say that?
PO: Its completely organized, and if you
abuse it, it beats you. It's incredibly oppres
sive and then when you start trying to con
trol it, you start looking for others to
control .
. Schizophrenia is a solution, o-f
course, because It al!ows you to jump back
and forth from position to position without
any sense of self. Hopefully one position
will click. It's like the ,�canner. I tell you,
you should look at Ihis piece of equipment.
It just bounces back and forth until it finds
something to signal into and it just stops i f
there's information coming over that wave·
length. So, in effect, my aCl's quite
schizophrenic.
Eli C. Messinger
Violence
to the Brain
The theories Gild techrio logy
of medicine and psychiatry have
long been u�ed to buttress the
views of, and to maintain sociol
control by those who hold pollt.
icol power. The technical mecms
hove changed from one hlstar.
libl area to the next. The more
!ffiportont techniques now In use
Ifldude
psychoactive
drugs,
brain
behavior
surgery,
tflSdif!cgtlon
techniques
and
electroshock therapy.
The theory that personal
violence Is due to broi" drs,
fonction and that it should be
treated by brain surgery It pre·
sented by Vernon Mark and
Fronk Ervin In Violence "nd fhe
I)roln. ' They retommonct the
development of moss str"oning
and treatment programi '(jf in.
dlvlduals
rone to vlolet-nt@
bee-cuse (I brain dysfundlorl.
.
The pseudo sclentific grgurnll'nts
they gdvgnce gre not unique. A
thegry of brain dysfunction has
been advanced to explain the 50·
cglled hyperactivity of childhood.
Both theories gttribute behavior·
01 problems solely to on organk
couse, in both coses, the treot·
ment is organic. While brain
surgery for behavior contrai ls
not common at this time In the
United States , several hundreds
of
thousands
of
American
f
Eli C. Messinger, M.D., Is (I Child
Psychiatrist ot the Metropolitan
Hospitol in New York City.
Dhvid Cooper
The Invention
of Non-Psychiatry
Nciti-j:J!iYchiatry is coming into being. Its birth has
been a tlifficult affair. Modern psychiatry, as the
pseudo-medical action of detecting faulty ways of
living Iive� and the technique of their categorization
and their correction, began in the: eighteenth century
and developed through the ninet@€fltfi ttl its consum
mation in the twentieth century, Hartd itt hand with
the rise of capitalism it began, as a pflhcipai agent of
the destruction of the absurd hOf'ltlS, fears, joys and
despair of joy of P!!opie who tdiJsed containment by
that system. Hand in hand with capitalism in its death
agonies, over the coming years (it might be twenty Qr
thirty years), psychiatry, after familialization and
education, one of the principal repressive devices (with
its mote sophisticated junior affiliate psychoanalysis)
Of the bOufgeois order, wi!! be duly interred ,
Thtl ttH)v�ment, schematically, is very simple: psy·
chilmy, fully institutionalized (put in place) by a state
system ll!med at the perpetuation of its labour supply,
using HI¢ persecution of the non-obedient as its threat
tb make 'them' conform or be socially eliminated, was
attacked in the year 1960-by an anti-psychiatric
movement which was a sort of groping anti·thesis, a
resistance movement against psychiatric hospitals and
their indefinite spread in the community sectors, that
was to lead dialectically to its dialectical issue which we
can only cal! non-psychiatry, a word that erodes itself
as one writes it.
Non-psYchiatry means that profoundly disturbing,
incomprehensible, 'mad' behaviour is to be contained,
incorporated in and diffused through the whole society
as a subversive source of creativity, spontaneity, not
'disease'. Under the conditions of capitalism, thi.':! is
clearly 'impossible'. What we have to do is to accept
this impossibility as the challenge. How can any chal
lenge be mea:;:��d by less than its impossibility. The
non-existencq"qf..psychiatry will only be reached in a
transformefj'isociety,
but it is vital to start the work of
.
de-psychiatrj�.ti()n now,
After being.�ufficiently fed and housed, there is the
radical need .tQ , expreSs oneself autonomously in the
world and to lwye ,one's acts and words recognized as
one's own by at �st one other human being. The total
ideal autonomy of npt needing one word of confirma
tion from anyone else remains ideal. While some
people certainly find great satisfaction in a certain type
of productive work, there are immense needs for
confirmed, autonomous expression that exceed such
satisfaction. But this personal expression becomes in
creasingly difficult. Madness becomes increasingly
impracticable
because
of extending
psycho
surveillance.
Orgasmic sexuality is destroyed by the hours and
quality of labour and, at least for the bourgeoL�ie, is
replaced by the passivity of po�nographic spectacle or
Thai massage. People attend classes or 'therapy' for
corporal expression. Universal, popular artistic
expression (such as Japanese haiku poetry -or the
formerly universal popular ' invention of song and
dance) is overshadowed by the professionalization and
technologization of the specialized art forms deformed
by the market.
:.
;' The key question for revolutionaries is how to avoid
the recuperation of pcqpie and their autonomous
expression (and for that matter, of all new revolution
ary ideas) by the state " system (as ·opposed to the
recuperation of invalidated persons and ideas by the
people). The question within this question centres on
the word 'avoid', AvqJding here involves the
systematic abolition of all !�stitutional repression, but
we are focusing here on tIle abolition of all psycho
technology-a wider question than the abolitiQn of
psychiatric institutions inside and outside hospitals by
.
the forms of non-p.sychiatric action.
One should understand by psycho-technology not
only psychiatry, psychology, psychoanalysis and
alternative therapy, but also the mystifying techniques
of the mass media (one has only to follow the
desperately, and accelerated, mystifying 'moral'
convolutions in the editorials of the capitalist press
from day to day). Then reward and punishment doc
trine (or bribery and blackmail) of Kissinger-type for
eign policies. The use of psycho-technology in law
COurts, prisons, and by the military, Technology is for
things, not people.
In a bookshop in now fashionable Cannery Row in
California I found, after an ironic display of all the
works of Steinbeck, the department of best-selling
technology. The books (and I ' m certainly not implying
that they are on the same level) included treatises on
school_age children have been
diagnosed as h'!lvlng minimal
brain dysfunction (MBO) and are
treated with stimulant drugs:
amphetamines, Dexedrine and
Benzedrine, and methylpheni
date or Ritalin.
MBD: MEDICAL DISEASE OR
SOCIAL STRATEGY?
True medical diseases ore
defined an onatomh:al, bio
chemical
or
phVSiological
grounds. They exist Indepen
dently of the sadal setting.
Dlobetes, for example, Is de
fined by abnormalities In glucose
metabolism. While the diabetic's
sodal environment can influence
the course af the disease, the
abnormality in glucose metab
alism, rather than the diabetic's
sadal behavior, Indlcotes that
diabetes Is present. In contrast,
mast
behavioral
syndromes,
Including MBD, ore diagnosed by
a physician because of the
subject's dissonance with the
envlranment.'
sadal
This
explains the puuling observa·
tlon that the "symptoms af MBD"
commonly subside during va
cations fram school .. ,
The dahl used to establish
the diagnosis of MBD ate highly
sublectlve. The Judgment by a
teacher or parent, for example,
will depend an his/her criterion
for hyperactivity and the sadal
setting where the activity was
observed. Even the direct obser
vation af a child is Influenced by
the dinicion's skill and exper
ience, the meaning of the exami
nation to the child, the physical
setting, and the child's physical
and mental state at the time af
the abservatlon.
The following Ibt of "symp
toms" appears in a pamphlet
written for htachers, doctors and
counselors prepared by Dr.
James Satterfield, director af the
Gateways Hasp/tal Hyperkinetic
Clinic:
Overadlvlty: unusual energy,
Inab/lty fa slf stl/l In
the
classroom and 0' mealtime, tolk·
ing au' 01 tUM In the class,
dl5rupting the don.
Oistradlblllty: naf geHing work
done In school. daydreaming In
the
classroom,
tuning
out
teachers and parents when 'hey
try to give dlredlons, being
unable '0 'ake pari in <aNi games
and
other games
such
as
Monopaly.
68
Impulsiveness: being unable to
save up money for something
that Is badly wonted, blurllng out
secrets or things thot ore known
to be tactless, saying $osty things
to teacher lust to ,how off.
be/fablllty: getting very wound
up and OVerexcited and more ac
tive around groups of children or
In sflmulatlng new situations.'
It is cleor that this Is really a list of
behavior c::onsidered unaccept_
able to teachers, pClrents or other
adults. The child wl10 is at odds
with the educotionol system Is
sent fa the medical.psychiatrlc
system.
There
a classroom
behavior or learning difficulty 15
diognosed as MBD; the difficulty
Is re-deflned as a medical or
psychiatric problem. The child 15
returned to the classroom with a
diogn«�5tic lobel, and fTequently
with a chemical control agent.
EARLY DETECTION
Early detection of disease is
q valid prh1ciple In m"dicine.
However If lesse", accura�y I"
diagnosis. Mark clI1d Ervin wrote
their poak for the generql public
because they wanted publlt; sup
port for the es,abllshmel'lt of
early defection programs:
We need fo develop on "early
warnil'lg test" of limbic brain
'.,metion to detfJc:t tn,)!e humans
who have q low threshhold for
/mPllls/ve vlol�mce, and we need
b�tter and more effe�tlve me'''.
ods of 'reaflng '''em once we
have found out who they are.
Violence Is a public healt" prob.
lem, qnd the malor thrust 0' any
pl'l,)gram dealing with v/o/ence
mud be toward its prevenflon-a
goal that will mah a betfer and
soler world for us a/I.'
Th,,'f urge prograff1S to identify
persons "as being potentially
violent."
The reductio ad absurdum ot this
reasoning Is the theory thpit "hid.
den brain disea�e" can �al,l�e
violence;
All the per�on5 we have de
,(ribed fhu� for were known to
have brain dls,05e, which, as w!!'
have shown, PH,veJ4 to �e related
to their violent behav/�r. But
what of those Individuals who are
uncontrollably violent but do not
have epileptic seizures or other
of
brain
obvious
signs
disease? . . . . /5 " ponible that
they, '00, are suffering from an
T.A. (Transactional Analysis), T.M. (Transcendental
Meditation), E.S.T. (Erhard Seminars Training , not
exactly electro-shock, E.CT.), Creative Fidelity,
Creative Aggression, Provocative Therapy, Gestalt
Therapy, Prima! Scream, Encounter Therapy, the
conducting of three-day 'Marathons', a form of deep::
massage, Bio-energy, Japanese Hot Tubs (you take off
your clothes and enter them en groupe as part of liber.:
ation). Then, 'Behaviour Mod' (the new generation)
Skinner) on how to toilet-train your child in twenty4
four hours-···and then on the next shelf another book
advertising a method of toilet-training your child in
less than twenty-four hours! I've no doubt that after
some of these experiences some people feel better, or
begin to 'feel', or feel more 'real'-or whatever the
ideals of capitalism prescribe for them.
One day the United' States, together with the
European countries of 'advanced llbera! democracy'
(whose fascist nature will more rapidly and nakedly
emetge), will have to stand on their own feet rather
than sit on the back of the rest of the world, and then
there will be another less easy and lucrative sort of
'reality' to face.'
in the meantime there is a growing cultural
imperialism, by which highly commercialized psycho·
techniques are being insidiously imported into the
poorer but more politically advanced countries of
Europe and the Third World by professional liberators
who go to the U.S. for crash courses in the latest
techniques and return to their countries to reap the
cash results. While this development is clearly not on
the scale of exploitation by the multinational drujl:
companies with their psychotropic drugs, its
ideological content is significant. After psychiatry
based 011 de-conditioning (in fact a sad re-con
ditioning) or conventional psychoanalysis, there is the
'third force' of 'alternative therapy' 19 seduce the
desperate who shun the first two. The ideology of
personal salvation presents highly effective strategie�
of de-politidzation.
Once again, there are no personal problems, only
political problems. But one takes 'the political' in a
wide sense that refers to the deployment of power in or
between socia! entities (including between the parts of
the body of a person which incarnate certain social
realities). Personal problems in the commonest sense
reduce the political to things going on between one
person and a few others, usually on an at !east implicit
family model; problems of work, creativity and
finding oneself in a lost society arc dearly politica!
problems. Therapies and conventional psychoanalysis
rein force 'oedipian' familialism and, whatever
contrary intentions, exclude from the concrete field of
action macropolitica! reality and the repressive !,''ystems
that mediate this reality to the individual
The word 'therapy' had better be banished because
�.
f its medical-technical connotation. But people still
jwrn, noo-'radically', to talk with articulated words.
�.
.
, ut it should not take many hours to say the few things
' at matter in one's life if the other person unstops his
' rs. Listening to someone in 'fuH flight of delusion'
,erie can effectively stop one's ears by trying to
nterpret the 'content' of the words, or by the
�jdiculous attempt to speak in the same language. The
�ords attempt to express the inexpressible which is
\b eyer the content of the words but always in the very
,precise silences formed in a unique way by the words,
iso, unblocking one's ears, one listens to the silences in
'their preciseness and their speCificity. There is never
'any doubt that the 'deluded one' will know whether or
hot one's ears are unblocked. Beyond that. with
�paranoia', there ii! always the practical task of
ascertaining the real past and present forms of
persecution, Psycho-technological training. to fulfil its
soda! purpose of mystification, tends to blind and
deafen people to what should be obvious.
Franco Basaglia and his associates recently set up a
centre at Belluno. in a large country house in the
Dolomites, to receive people from the' psychiatric
hospital at Trieste who live for varying periods in a
relatively de-institutionalized setting. One day while I
was living in the house a man who had been a hospital
ized withdrawn 'chronic schizophrenic' for over
twenty years smashed the television set in the middle of
a football match, and then three windows (to see the
world 'outside' rather than the world 'in the box' etc.
etc.). The point was that in the group situation of
anger and fear he was not immediately 'dealt with' by
a large injection of a neuroleptic drug (costing much
more than occasional broken windows) but was taken
on one side by one of the staff, who made no comment
but opened his ears while the patient with great feeling
told the history of his life for two hours. Of course the
problem remained of finding a mode of insertion in
the outside world after twenty years of systematic
institutional incapacitation, but the point was that
'chronic schizophrenia' was abolished by the con
junction of a more reasonable context, one or two
acts, and a few more words and a lot more feeling
-and by the persona! 'policy' on the part of someone
to have 'open ears' rather than just the simple mystifi
cation of 'open doors'.
So now one says that psychiatrists have one option
-either they kill themselves or we assassinate
them�metaphorical!y of course.' What does t.hat
mean? It means that one recogniZes just how difficult
it is for someone formed, preformed, deformed as a
professional psycho-technologist principally in the
medical policing racket of psychiatry but also in the
areas of psychoanalysis and psychology, social psy
chology, 'socio-psychoanalysis' and so on, to change
their life structures, which entail gaining money as part
0'
abnormality
syslemP'
of
'he
limbic
Pressure Is also put on the
practising physician to diagnose
M80 early. The "symptoms" of
MBO are very common, parti
cularly in younger elementary
school-age children. In a study of
the entire Itindergarten through
second-grade population of a
Midwestern town, teachers went
asked to rate the frequency of 55
behaviors.' In boys, restlessness
was found In ,49 percent, distrac
tibility In 48 percent, disruptive
ness in 46 percent, short atten
tion span In .:13 percent, and Inat
tentiveness in 43 percent. Should
nearly half the boys in the first
three grades of a public school
system properly be considered
suspects for the designation
MBo?
THE NUMBERS GAME
Another maneuver used by
those who propose a medical
model for violence and hyper
activity is to exaggerate the
magnitude of the problem. Mark
and Ervin studied only a small
number of patients with limbic
brain disease. They stretched the
significance of their limited
clinical experience by referring
to a paol o' many millions of
Americans with brain disease
who might be violence.prone, an
implication that is clinically false.
'n a parallel fashion, millions of
children are said to have MBD.
When Lauretta 8ender surveyed
the admissions to 8ellevue
Hospital's children's psychiatric
service, she found thot only 0.14
percent suffered from post·
encephalitic behavior disorders,
one of the few conditions in
which brain injury directly causes
disordered behavior.' Estimates
of the incidence of M80 in the
school-age population, however,
run as high as 5 to 10 percent.
Paul Wender, a prolific writer on
the subiect, would apply thot
diagnosis to almost any child
who has the misfortune of being
tttken to a child guidance dinic:
With no further knowledge, any
preadolescent child admitted to
a child guidance clinic Is most
probably In the category until
proven otherwise. If, In addition,
one knows that a child Is not
bI�arre or retarded and has not
been recent'y disturbed by a pre·
sumably noxious environment,
one e(ln moire the diagnosis wlfh
some certo/nty. This Jlognodlc
technique Jocks sub". nicety but
Is quIt• •H.cll"•• •
Effective
for
whom?
The
consequences Ofe very serious
because Wender prescribes stirn·
ulant drugs to all children he
dlQgnoses as having MBD. Ritolln
commonly causes loss of appe·
tite, sleeplessness. irritobillty.
and abdominal poln. Long·term
use of Ritalin In higher doses, or
of Dexedrine at all dose levels,
can Interfere with normal
growth! In rare cases, Ritalin
has caused a toxic psychosis
marked by hallucinations and
bi:uHre behovlor. ,. Ritalin can
COU5& an increase in heart rot.
and blood pressure. The mQI"
psychological ha:r:ord of medico_
t!em for children diognosed as
having MBD Is thot they often
come to view the drug as 0 magic
pill which they feel they need for
self�control. Indeed, thot Is how
the drug company portroys
Rltolin in Its advertisements for
physldon prescribers:
Here 15 a child who seems to get
very Imle ou' of school. He con',
sit ,#til. Doesn't toke dlredlons
well. He's easily frustrated, elf
titoble, often aggressive. And
he's got 0 very shorl attention
span .... He 1$ a victim of Minimal
BraIn Dysfunction, a dlognosoble
dlseose entity that genera.llv re
sponds to treatment programs."
Either millions of American
schoal.age children suffer from a
poorly defined and hord.to.diog·
nose b roln disorder, or it Is in the
interests of the medical profes.
sion, the drug industry ond the
school estoblishment to convince
us thot this Is 50.
The lobelling of school
children os brain domaged 15 an
example of what Williom Ryon
calls blaming the victim. The
individual Is blamed for the
shortcomings of the sodol
system, here the educotional
system. The impetus for funda·
mental sodal reform Is thereby
blunted.
The only chonge
prompted by the blaming-the.
victim Ideology Is the familiar
formula of help for the victim.
This Is usually garbed In human·
Itorian terms of remedlotion,
rehabilitotion and other com·
pensatory programs. In all cases,
the victims are labelled as
pathological while the sodal sys·
of the system. To make a dear enough rupture with
the system means risking every security structure in
one's life-and one's body and one's mind; family,
house, insurance, highly acceptable social identity and
highly acceptable means of making enough or more
than enough money to live by, all these possessions
that one cannot contain in one suitcase (pianos
excepted). For some few professionals that has been an
historic necessity, for others a temporary historical
compromise is possible. We don't all have to have a
total destructuring an the time (the 'suicide' of the psy
chiatrist)�on the same side, and with total solidarity
with the other madmen who are murdered. But if psy
chiatrists don't destructure enough of the time they
produce the necessity for their 'murder'.
When in the early 1960s, in the course of various
polemics in England. I produced finally the wretched
and infinitely distorted term 'anti-psychiatry', there
was no collective consciousness of the necessity of
political involvement. In those years we were an
isolated in our national contexts of work. Now there
are thousands and thousands of us who begin to
recognize a dialectic in our struggle through the
growing solidarity of our action.
There is a dialectic that proceeds from psychiatry
through anti-psychiatry to non-psychiatry (or the final
abolition of all psycho-technological methods of
surveillance and control). The development of this
dialectic is inseparable from the development of the
class struggle. It does not, however, follow auto
matically from the dialectic of the political revolution
that leads from capitalism through socialism (whether
achieved in some cases by the dictatorship of the
proletariat , direct seizure of power by the working
class with popular elements of the military. in other
cases by guerrilla warfare (urban, rural) or in others by
using the bourgeois democratic machinery. including
turning the mystification of the electoral process
against itself) to the classless society of communism
that abolishes also the last elements of bureaucratic
Antinon- dialectic does not
power. The
follow a political revolution because it follows a social
revolution, against all forms of institutional repression
that retains its own, highly variable, momentum.
Those things that condition the variability of this
momentum are made clear in the concrete struggle for
social revolution in each country on the way to its
national communism as the base of the only possible
internationalism. If anyone finds an idealism or
utopianism in this, one can only reflect that it is as
utopian as the active aspirations of just about all
human-kind. As the political revolution is against class
(infrastructural) and national oppression, so social
revolution is the struggle against institutional
repression as we experience ourselves victimized by it
wherever we are, the struggle against the mystification
of our needs.
If we begin to see madness as our tentative move to
disalienation. and if we see the most immediately
present forms of alienation as arising from the class
division of society; there can be no psychiatry in fully
developed socialism (i.e. in a society where the gap
between political revolution and social revolution has
been 'adequately' narrowed) and no form of psycho
technology whatever in communist society. Such, in
very crude outline. are the 'hypotheses for the non
psychiatry' and the creation of the non- society. To
fill in the outline and make it less crude depends on
specific people and groups of people seizing conscious
ness not only o f their oppression but of the specific
modes of their repression in those particular institu
tions in which they live as functioning organisms and
strive to keep alive as human beings. The living, �al·
pating and now palpable solidarity that they invent is
what brings the vision down to earth. This solidarity as
revealer of the concrete is what we witness today in
some of the more authentic anti�and non-psychiatric
strivings ,
We may say that anti- and non-psychiatric
movements exist, but that no anti- or non-psychiatrists
exist. any more than 'schizophrenics'. 'addicts'.
tems which generate the path·
ology ore left undisturbed.
1. VernOn H. Mark and Frank R.
Ervin, VIolence and the BraIn. New
York, HCJrper ond Row, 1970.
Ide% g y
2. Thomas S%an,
and
Insanity. GClrden City, Doubledoy,
1970.
3. Jame, S.:dterfleld, "Information
far
Tencher.,
PhysldClns
Clnd
CounselofS."
4, Mark Clnd Ervin, op, (it., p. 160.
5. Ibid, p. 1 1 2 .
6 . J. S. Werry a n d H. C. Quoy, '·The
prevolenc" of b"hovlor symptoms in
young".
school
elementary
child."n."
American
Jour","
of
Orthopsychiatry 41:136, 1971.
"Post
7. Lauretto
Bender,
Encephalitic Behavior Disord"n In
Childhood,'·
in
Encephalitis:
A
Clinical Study, ed. J, Neal, Grune &
StraHan, 1972.
8. Paul H, Wender, Minimal Brain
Oyt/unctlon In Children. New YQ.k.
John Wiley & Sons, 1971. p. 61.
9. Oonlel
Soler,
Richard
Allen,
Evelyn Barr, "Depression of GrQwth
in HyperacHve Children on Stimulant
Drugs," New England Journal of
Medielne 287:217. 1972.
10. A.
Lutas
and
M.
Weiss,
"Methylphenidate
Hallucinosis;·
Journal of the American Medical
AUDelot/on 217:1019, 1971.
in
advertisement
11. CIBA
Psvch/alrlc News, Seple-mber 20,
1912, p.9.
REMOVE THE
OF SCHIZOPH
SYMPTOMS
'STElAZINE' PROVIDES EfFECTIVE ({
HALLUCINATIONS, DElUSIONS. AN;
SCHIZOPHRENIC SYMPTOMS IN A VI
fROM THE WITHDRAWN AND APAH
AND OVERACTiVE. 'STElAZINf' HEll
PSYCHOTIC PATIENT TO REALITY At-.
THERAPEUTIC CONTACT ANO RAPP(
•
•
•
EFFECTIVELY CONTROlS PSYCHOT
SELDOM CAUSES EXCESSIVE SEDAl
CONVENIENT B.LD. DOSAGE
..,�.,.�,,-�.,-.���
�-""�-...�..., ....�.�
..
""""""_.,....rl•••_.
"_,STEU
TRIFWOPEI
Helps schiwphren1( polien
'perverts', or no matter what other psycho-diagnostic
category. What do exist are psychiatrists, psycholo_
gists and al! manner of other psycho-technicians. The
latter exist only precariously; when no roles remain for
them to live, their very securizing identity is at
stake-on the stake waiting to be roasted.
Psychiatrists and their associated tribe have canni_
balized us too long in the perverse mode of fattening
us up for the slaughter with masses of neuroleptics,
injections, shocks, interpretations in their masters'
voice, and with their projections �of their fear of
their madness, their envy of the other's madness and
their halred of the reality of human difference, of
autonomy. Now, though fed up, we will de-vow them!
Even though they arc small fry they fry quicker than
quick since they wash whiter than white.
There are two things to be done: firstly, the final
extinguishing of capitalism and the entire mystifying
ethos of private property; secondly, the social revo
lution against every form of repression, every violation
of autonomy, every form of surveillance and every
social
mind·manipulation�the
technique
of
revolution that must happen before, during and
forever after the political revolution that will produce
the classless SOciNY .
If these things do not happen well within the limits
of this century, within the life-span of most of us now
Jiving, our species wi!! be doomed to rapid extinction.
In such a case, if our species is not extinguished, it
should be, because it will no longer be the human
species.
It is not true as the philosophers of pessimism say
that 'the dreadful has already happened' (Heidegger),
but is is true that we are haunted by the dreadful and it
is true that there is no hope.
There is only incessant, unrelenting struggle and
that is the permanent creation of the hoped for . . . a
forgotten intentionality.
After the desfruction of 'psychosis' and the
depassment of the structures that invented it for their
system, we can now consider the abolition of madness,
and the word 'madness'. But first let us consider this
state of affairs: The madman in the psychiatric
situation is faced, in short, by a three-fold
impossibility:
1 . If he lies, enters into a collusive situation of
pretense with the psychiatrist, he betrays his own
experience, murders his own reality, and it is not likely
to work anyhow in a situation where the other
(respectable one) is defined by his role as being always
'onc up' with regard to reality.
1,.. 1/ he tells the truth he will be destroyed by all the
techniques available, because who can dare exprcsS
things that exceed the wretched limits of normal
language imposed by the ruling class and all its psycho·
agents. He must be protected from such a suicidal
defiance; he is logically saved from such a suicide by
the simple act of murder.
3. If he stays silent he will be forced to chatter
acceptable nonsense (withdrawal would be seen as
katatonic or paranoid, as if there were something to
feel suspicious about in the psychiatric, or any of an
the other repressive situations surrounding the
psychiatric one).
Schizophrenia has no existence but that of an ex
ploitable fiction.
Madness exists as the delusion that consists in really
uttering an unsayable truth in an unspeakable
situation.
Madness, presently, is universal subversion desper
ately chased by extending systems of control and
surveillance. It wi!! find its issue with the victory of all
forms of subversive struggle against capitalism,
fascism and imperialism and against the massive,
undigested lumps of repression that exist in bureau
cratic socialism, awaiting the social revolution that got
left behind in the urgency of political revolution,
understandably perhaps, though never excusably.
The future of madness is its end, its transformation
into a universal creativity which is the lost place where
it came from in the first place.
I . Even such remorseless critics of psychiatry, from
the interior of the establishment, as Dr. Thomas SZas?:
equate freedom with the U.S. Constitution and bour
geOis law. What freedom is it that depends on the
enslavement of the rest of the world, particularly the
Third World on which capitalism (parasitkeven in its
origins, the genocide of original people and the
destruction of their civilizations and black slavery)
depends-and could not survive without. The im
plantation, the direct and indirect support of fascist
military dictatorships by the imperialist countries, neo
colonialism and multinational company criminality
exist , even though schizophrenia doesn't Dr. Szasz
(who has accused all psychiatrists of crimes against
humanity while one menta! patient remains com
pulsorily detained against his will) is far more
consistent and honest than most ('Psychiatry is a
religion . . I teach the religion'). In general however,
the teaching of pSYCho-technologies introduces a
police operation into the universities and is in contra
diction with the celebrated Academic Freedom.
2. Wolfgang Huber (a p8ychiatrisO and his wife, of
the Socialist Patients' Collective (S.P.K.), Heidelberg,
were imprisoned for four years for being, very ob
viously, taken as literal. They wanted to establish an
autogestion in the university psychiatric centre. The
police, directed by the psychiatric establishment,
'found' guns in their possession. The S.P.K., now
resuscitated, had the aim of uStllR 'illness' as an arm
against the capitalist system, a method of political edu
cation, not therapy.
)NTROL OF
(IEly AN[)OTHER
IIDE RANGE OF PATI�Nrs
lETICTO THE ANXIOUS
"SRETURN THE
10 CAN FACILITATE
)RT.
IC SYMPTOMS
ION
UINE�;�
tAZlNE HCL
1 5 twcome more responsive
Martine Barrat
Vicki
Martine Barral: Have you been writing
again the way you used (0 when you were in
jail?
Vicki: Yeah. I write when I think of what's
like today. You know. sometimes when
you're alone you just lay back and look up
at the ceiling and just think about good
things . . .
A s a matter o f fact, I was thinking of
the gangs. Thinking of the time that we
rumbled against the Immortal Girls and, at
that time, it didn't seem funny because I
had a one-on-one. 1 fought the Prez of that
division. Her name was Nancy.
Martine: Was she big?
Vicki: No, she was tall. And now that
think of it I laugh because I should have
felt stupid at the time. The girl was one of
those girls that just has a lot of mouth.
So her girls came in our club. The
second division club . . . of the Royal
Queens . . . and messed it up. Threw the
furniture down and everything. And one of
our girls went into the club at the time they
Martine Barrat has been making videotapes
in the South Bronx in collaboration with
street gangs since 1971. They were present
ed at the Schizo-Culture Colloquium and,
recently, at the Whitney Museum. Vicki,
who was 16 when this conversation was
taped a year ago, has two children. She is
the "Prez" (president) of the Roman
Queens, the female counterpart of the
Roman Kings.
were doing it. They beat her up. One of my
girls. So, I was in the moyies with half of
my girls. We usually sit right in the middle.
I had my girls there and we were smoking.
We was all fucked up at that time. We was
drinking a lot of beer and wine and was just
goofing on the picture. It was Foxy Brown.
All of a sudden this girl comes in and she's
bleeding. She tells me, "Hey, man, the
Immortal Girls just beat us up." You know
how fast I jumped up'! And I was high. We
all ran down there. They fucked her up,
you know. There was about six of them
and only one of her. It really wasn't fair.
So we went down there.
Martine: You went to their club?
Vicki: Yeah. The Immortal Girls comes
out. We was in the school yard. We was all
packing. The Prez, all she says is, "Why
the fuck you want some static? You don't
like what we did?"
And I said, "No. I don't like what you
did and I could blow you away right now."
So she said, "Yeah, that's al! you
need. That's all you use is a gun."
I said, "Look, I use my hands, too."
I'm very good with my hands. My
brothers, they teach me to fight, you
know. "
Martine: Do you find it difficult 10 use
guns? Because you're a girl? Do you feel
you need a lot of strength to lise them?
Vicki: Not really because since my broth
ers were Nomads, which was before they
were Roman Kings, they had guns. So the
first-gun that they had lent to me was a ,22.
Ii ;,vaS small, and my brother, I think it was
Ace, told me, "You never shot a gun,
right?", and I told him "no,"
So he told me, "Come with m e up to
the roof." He shot and says, "Now is your
turn. "
1 didn't know what the hell to do, so I
said. "What do I do with this?"
"Just do straight," he says, and I shot
it. The first time you feel kind of nervous
after you shoot a gun because it kicks a lot.
From that day on, every time I'd get a gun
I'd start shooting on the roof. And that's
how I learned, But a big gun isn't easy for
me to handle.
flow old were you then?
I was small. I was about eleven. But
from that day on I have a .32 automatic on
me. I always carry it around, especially
when I get my check.
or when I'm
,,,filing home alone at night. You know,
::o;o'!body j� going to jump me and stuff.
s'! 1 just pull it out. I won't shoot to kill,
but 1 'il shoot them sO they know not to
fuck around with me no more. That's how
I am. But that time, with that girl, I didn't
want to take up the gun because I feel, boy,
I'll just slap her around a few times and the
girl will shut her damned mouth. I don't
like to talk when I argue with somebody,
'
I'll �wing first. I lost my temper fast.
eve�l with a guy (laughs), That's why most
ormy boyfriends, they left me. It's not that
I'm a manhandler but it's the type of thing
where I don't like nobody to slap me
arOllnd. My mother don't hit mc. My own
mother. she hit me only twice and that was
when J wf.i� small.
Mar-tine:
Vicki:
r(lll think guys {eave YOII for
thaI. They lan't take it?
Vicki: They can't takc it because they ar"
gued with m'e, I get mad fast. Espe;.;iaily
when they cuss at you, say "Ah, fvet; Y(lu"
or something like that. And 1 SJy,
"What?" They don't have to swin� al lIle
first because I'll turn around and ,'n �'wing
at them and we just fight right there. I'm
not as strong as a man and really rhr,:y kiCK
my ass, you might as well say But \'\e
pro....ed to them that when you raise a hand
on me, I'm going to laise one back.
Because he would lose respect for me just
Martine:
as much as I am losing respect for him. We
just fall sliding all over the place until one
of us give up . . . and most likely he's going
to give up because I lost my temper and if I
grab their hair, whatever 1 got, I won't let
go.
You are lucky to have brother�
teaching you how to fight,
Vicki: Yeah. Uke when we was the Young
Nomads, they used to put me up to fight
with the girls. ,
Martine: For initiation ?
Vicki: Yeah. If I would lose a fight, they'll
make me fight her and fight her until I win.
I could be dead on my feet and, boy, they
teU me to go ahead and fight, fight until
I'm going to get real mad and I'm going to
whip her ass. That's how they taught me.
Don't ue scared of nobody. Especially i f
they raise their hand t o you. So, that's
what happened.
Martine:
And that's why you want to
('ach your little girl to fight?
Vicki: Right. Now she gets real mad. She
starts swinging at anybody that's there,
whoever bothers her. I teach her. I tell her,
"You hit back because they only going to
fuck over you if you don't hit back." She's
like that and I'm like that. But I don't tel!
her to go around hitting everybody in the
head. I just tell her, "When someb�){jy
hi1S you, you hit back. And if they anl11e
wi1t! ),ou, you argue with them. If they talk
back to you, you talk back to them. Just
don'1 let nobody lalk about your mofher or
Y0tH fatht:r or your family." One thing I
rJon't want .1Oybou.,! calling me is a Olother�
fucker. b<!came I feel I don't hIck my
mother, 1 got a lot of respect for my
>nom-to a point where if somebc\dy puts
h�r down that's it. Right there l s{.:c blood
in my eyes and I just go at th('nI. I say,
"Look, J'm not a mother-fucker. Don't
ever say that." Either they say, ' ' Ah, you
know, it's only a joke, we're only goofing
ar,)und". But it's my hear·t . Tpat's my
mother, you know. and I love her. I'm not
�olng to let somebody else talk ar.out her,
e�pecially no! in my lamily. Ev;::n my own
brothers. I say, "Don't talk about Ma like
Iha!, because we all got the same mother
and (he same blood and we love her a Jolo"
And they understand what I'm saying.
Martine:
I {ave your mother,
She's very sweet and she worked
Martine:
Vicki:
hard to get where she's at. She tries her
she could go to hell, too. I tell her, "I was
best.
born in this world by myself. I ' m going to
Martine: When there are rumbles between
cliques, are they between cliques ofgirls or
do they involve the guys?
Vicki: It was mostly with guys because
there wasn't a lot of trouble with girls.
Really and truly.
Martine: You think girls fight as much as
guys?
Vicki:
how ! am. I hold it in, hold it in. They fuck
me today. I get my ass kicked today. But I
alway� get revenge.
Marlin{': Like your
rumhle
with
the
Immortals?
Vicki:
Yeah, like that girL ! grab her alone
and we straightened it out and now me an'
Well, guys fight a lot. Girls' don't
fight as much. Like i f it was al! up to them
we'l! fight. The guys, they got to fight be
cause their prez tells them to fight. But if it
was up {Q us girls, we'd hand out together.
We would like to have a brotherhood. But
sometimes it's the girls. I'm the one who
started
tell you personally (hat you got me now.
but !'m going to pay you bacL" That's
rumbling
with
the
Immortals
because I have something against that girl
from school, Nancy. We fought and then
she told the school
J
pu!led out a knife on
her and they threw me out. I couldn't go to
school no more, so I had something against
the Immortals because of her.
When I have something against some
body, I take it out in one fight. Onc fight.
As long as I get m y shit off. After that if
she want to talk t o me, she talk to me but
1 1( .'1'
don't have no trouble. I see her. She's
in jail righf now when I go to see her.
Marline: Why 1:5 she in jail?
Vicki: She was selling drugs.
She sold
drug_, 10 a cop and now she's facing ten to
Iwenty·five.
Martine: l1/erc there many fights with
knivcs and gllns at rhe time you were in
schnol?
\'j(ki: No guns or knives, we j ust fight
with the hands. l\·lmt o f the time that
the-re's fights is because someone don't !ike
you or someone try to take my boyfriend
away. So, they fight and scratch each other
ur·
M:lrlinc: Rut YOII've fought with knives
{[nd slu/I Was thar outside a/ school?
Yeah, outside. Say I fight some should get all the cliques and the girts to
body and I beat her up. She ain't going to gether. You know, make truce and then
like that. So she know if she fights with me throw parties and shit. But it could never
again, I'm going to beat her up again. So happen that way. Because of the guys.
she'll bring something to stab me with, or
Put it this way, a woman has a softer
she'll bring a gun and shoot me with it. We heart than a man. A man, if he holds some
don't trust them just like they don't trust thing against somebody, he's going to get
"' .
them. Kill them. And they're determined to
do even that. That's what's wrong with the
Martine: So you think that's one oj the
reasons why kids in the clique carry guns? gang. Like if somebody from another
dique do something to a Roman King,
Vicki: Yeah, that's why. God knows what
they'll hold it in for a while and then, when
they going to do when we turn our backs, they catch that person, forget it. You might
just like God knows what we going to do as well say they finished. They dead. If it
when they turn their backs. That's all.
was up to the girls we'd be friends with
Martine: Do you remember when Charlie everybody. But the guys, shit, they'll kick
organized that /Jig meeting with all the you with their M.e. boots.
cliques afler Benji got killed? To fry to gel
them together so they wouldn 't fight
Martine: You were telling me aboul the
an)'more?
Outlaw Marriage in the cliques. You 'old
Vicki: I was upstate at the time. I heard
me that the girl who gets married in certain
about it. By the time I got back everything
cliques has fa get down with all the guys in
passed and everybody wac; walking the
the clique. Do the girlsfeel like that is being
streets again. AI! the diques.
raped?
Vicki: I feel that they do, yeah. It's just
Martine: You're a leader of a clique, 100.
Did you ever think about getting all the like rape. When a girl has to get down with
all of them. I WOUldn't do that. 1 couldn't
cliques together?
walk in the street proud. I think a good
Vicki: Yeah. I tried to do that a lot. I
would talk to my girls and tell them we man is the type that will make love to a
Vicki:
woman and won't talk about it to nobody.
It's his personal thing. The thing he should
keep inside. A man that lays with a woman
and then tells every guy, "Oh, I lay with
that girl, she's a good ruck," he's bad.
That make you feel like a piece of shit on
the floor. If I'm going to marry a dude
from a clique, I'm going to give myself
only to him. You might as well be alone or
become a tramp or something if you lay
with every guy.
Martine: But the guy doesn 't have to get
down with all/he girls?
Vicki: (laughs): No. But if he lets his wife
that he just married get down with the
other guys, then the marriage is over.
Really. Has to be.
Martine: You think that wilt change one
day?
Vicki: Yeah. I t will change. Like now most
of the cliques ain't that way. I got married
Outlaw. We don't do that in the Roman
Kings.
Martine: Can you describe the marriage to
me because I've never been to one?
Vicki: The Roman Queens are on one side
and the Kings on their side and everybody
flies their colors. We're clean. We're never
dirty. You know, we have our dungarees,
our tee shirt, our jackets with the colors on
it and our boots, The guys have on their
Outlaw pants, a tee shirt, all their colors.
Their hats, whatever. And their M.C:s.
And the girls are on one side and all the
guys on the other side and we get in the
middle. Me and him. Well, when 1 got mar
ried to Baba, his twin brother got married
too. Behind them was the bridesmaid and
the . . . what you call . " best man. The guy
that married us was Husky Pekkhing'. So
we walked up to him. We stand there be
L'ause it was like a double wedding, And
Husky was there telling us, "I now pro
nounce you man and wife," like all the
things they say in church.
Martine: Did he hold a book like a priest
or something?
Vicki: Oh yeah. It was a bible. He was
holding it in his hands. We even had rings,
You know, I ' m not saying expensive
wedding rings but they was real sterling.
Anyway he say "kiss your bride and put
the ring on the finger," and it was just like
a rea! church. Except that afterwards, in-
stead Of tnrowmg I I\..<;; '"''- '''�J _�
church, they're pouring beer all over liS.
White we're walking down the aisle. Three
q!-!arts.
Martine: Did you sing?
Vicki: No. But the Roman
Kings they buy
beer and they get us real high and then
we're allowed to stay in the club, The club
was our apartment for three days. It's in
this wrecked building, I t was our honey�
moon, We stayed there for three days , . ,
without coming out (laughs). I f the Roman
Kings would have seen us out before three
days they would have sent us back in.
Yeah.
Did you cook?
Yeah.
Martine:
Vicki:
And love?
Yeah. (laughs).
Martine:
Vicki:
And care for each other?
Yep. And from that day on-this
happened four months ago-we're still
IOgelher.
Mllrtine:
Vicki:
And where was your little girl?
My mother wa� with her, I told my
mother about it. She didn't say nothing.
Martine:
Vicki:
Did your mother come to your
wedding?
Vicki: Are you crazy?
Martine:
There were no parents?
No, just us. But I feel it was nice,
vou know, because I've been raised by the
�angs.
Martine:
Vicki:
Martine: But in other cliques, like when
Cheena gal married with Black Ben in the
Sa\age Nomads, Ihe ceremony was differ
ent because she had to get down with . . .
Vicki: She do the same thing that they do
in church except that then they cut
themselves.
CUI themselves. Where?
Not on the vein. On the wrist. A
little bit just to show their blood and then
they rub it. With two hands, Like this.
Martine:
Vicki:
Like Indians were doing?
Yeah, Right. And then they got
down in front of everybody and then she
had to get down with the clique. And that
was it. But that's how 1 feel about the rape
thing. I fell that I married Baba right. The
other guys respect me. And they tel! me, " l
would like to rap to you i f you wasn't this
Martine:
Vicki:
80
guy's." And he feels proud because, you
know, I ' m no! conceited, but I know I ' m
n o t ugly.
Martine: When Cheena gO! married with
Rlack Ben, how many years ago was thaI?
Vicki: Four.
five years ago.
Ihi, way, half o f (he building are butches
and faggots. I guess Ihat's what's happen_
ing noW. Just a new style I guess. Like me.
I done gay when I was locked tip.
Martine: When you were in jail?
Vicki: I had turned gay because I didn't
Do you thinkshe was upset being
raped by Ihe division. Was it all the mem
bers oj the gang. or was it a division only?
\\"a� landy.
Vicki: There was a l ot of guys but I think it
was a division only.
Martine:
Martine!
Martine:
division?
About how many people are in a
10. I guess I had a
,houlder to Jean o n. It was a thing where I
have no man to !tim
A
Jo! of girls are like that when
they gel locked up .
And rhe same for the guys?
Ykki: The same for a guy, too. They know
all they going to see is boys so they say,
Vicki: Thirteen. I t ' s a good luck number.
·'What the heck. You going to be here for a
That's al! there was. She felt bad, but she
got over it.
while, why not enjo)' il?" So, girls turn to a
girl and the guys turn 10 a guy. That's Why
J think Ihat sex is bisexual.
Marline:
Did she talk about it fa you?
Vicki: No. She was on her honeymoon at
that time and when she came back she
wouldn't hardly come around. She used to
slay with Ben most o f the time so we didn't
Marline: And when you were in jail most
(!l fhe girls were going �t'i(h girls?
Vicki: Yeah.
Most
of them. Some girls
don't like gay but if they know they're go
have a good chance o f talking.
Ing 10 do a long time they get curious,
Bul I'm sure she didn 't go for
that at all.
Sume o f rhem Ihey just stay straight. They
Martine:
Vicki: No, nobody go for that. Only the
girls who like i t and they must be stupid or
crazy or something, Nobody likes to be
raped.
I
wouldn't,
I
feel
I
would
go
through a lot of changes if I did get raped.
Are there many girls who are
getting raped around here by cliques?
Martine:
won'l (urn cookie for nothing.
Martine: YOII were retlillg me ahOIlf your
siSler a'1I0 got raped in your building, What
happel/cd?
Vicki: Well, she was going to school and
,ill'
forgol her wallet. She came back up
and this guy was in the elevator with her.
They're friends so they was talking
(0
each
olher, When they got 10 his floor he pushed
Vicki: Well. before yes. B u t now, no. I
think the guys got sense now. You know,
they rap for i t instead.
her out and then he raped her right there.
She stayed in her room after thaI. She
didn't want to talk to nobody, She didn't
Martine: Some people say that more and
more young people ofyour generation are
bisexual or homosexual. Is that true?
want to tell nobody until long after. My
sister, she always remember that. Right
now she's living with her husband and
Vicki: Yeah. i t' s true. Some girls turn gay
because they got raped by their father.
Somt" girls turn gay because a lot of guys
raped 'them or a lot of guys used them and
hurt them. Or some fell i n love and every
time the guy hurts her. Leaves ht"r. That's
why they could go"to a girl . . . because they
know the girl won't leave. I think girls,
butches and
friends,
can
stay together
longer than a man and a woman, a man
and wife. J guess i t' s because they under
stand each other. When they have a prob
lem they could both t a l k it up, you know,
because they're both womans.
The men, too, 1 guess t h e men has the
same problems. Like i n the project. Pul it
when she has se.>; ual, you know, intercourse
\Hth him she thinks of that and that fucks
her up. Blli at least she told him. She told
h i m what happened 10 her and he don't
blame her. He knows what she went
llHough, Now they're all right. The rest of
tile rapes ain't around here. They're a few
blocks down . . . on Fox Street.
There are
buildings there?
Marline:
(l
lot of abandoned
Vkki; tvlos1 of Fox Street is abandoned.
The buildings are standing up by surprise.
The gangs go Ihere and forget i t . First Ihey
use the basement and from the basem ent
(hey mO\'e up and up and lip. Then they
hilve Ille whc!e building. In a few months
81
to me moved away because of the neigh
borhood. But you got to Itve through it be
Marline: Like affer a war. Your mother cause everywhere you go people are going
and people who five in places like that call to move away. There's going to be trouble
{hose places "Korea. " Do you think it's no matter where you are.
geUing worse?
Martine: Do you think of moving out
Vicki: Oh, it's getting worser and worser. when you get older?
I've been living here for about eleven years. Vicki: Sometime. But in a way I can't
Since I was sma!!. I seen buildings that just move because I love this place no matter
get put up and then I seen them get how ftlcked up it looks. I was born here
knocked down. I seen this place we live in and raised here and I guess I'm going to
when it was pretty. Yeah, pretty. Locks on stay here.
the door in the front of the building and
I guess if I'm going to become some
everyt hing. But now it's all knocked down. thing or if I'm going to gel fucked up I
There was a movie house up here. Right up don'! have to go out of state to do it. This
the block but it burned down. It ain't a is the South Bronx and you take it the way
moyie no more. People that are very close it is.
the whole building is condemned.
John Giomo
G�piPg at EmptiJless
You are walking
down
Lafart
�treet
#�
and your face
twists
up
and starts
crying
turn
your face
to the wall
so nobody'll
see
there's
tears.
running
down
your cheeks
don't
hold on
cause
I ' m already
gone
¥ou are walking
down
lafayette
Street
You are walking down
Lafayette Street
and your face
twists
up
and your face twists up
and starts
crying
and starts crying
and starts crying,
you are walking down Lafayette Street
and your face twists up and starts crying
turn
your face
to the wall
turn your face to the wall
so nobody'tI
see
so nobody'II see,
there's
tears
running
down
your cheeks
there's tears running down your cheeks,
don't
hoJd on
don't hold on,
cause
I ' m already
gone
cause I ' m already gone;
and there ain't
nothing
worse
in a relationship
than stupidity
you're so
fucking
up tight
blind
ignorance
and no matter
how
much
I love
fucking you
no matter how much I love
making love to you,
I can't
stand
being here
another
moment
as a matter
of fact
I never
want
to see you
again
and as I said
to you over
the telephone
"I hope
you have a nice
weekend"
you're running
on empty
and I feel
and there ain't
nothing
worse
in a relationship
and there ain't nothing worse
'
in a relationship
than stupidity
than stupidity
than stupidity
than stupidity,
you're so
fucking
up tight
you're so fucking
up tight
you're so fucking up tight,
blind
ignorance
blind ignorance
blind ignorance,
and no matter
how
much
I love
fucking you
and no matter how much I love fucking
no matter how much I love
making love to you,
I can't
stand
being here
another
moment
I can't stand being here another moment
as a matter
of fact
I never
want
to see you
again
I never want to see
you again
I never want to .see you again,
and as I said
to you over
the telephone
and as 1 said to you over the telephone
"I hope
you have a nice
weekend"
I hope you have a nice weekend,"
you're running
on empty
you're running on empty
you're running on empty,
and I feel
84
old
and ugly
and I don't
want
to talk
to anybody
nothing
I've ever
loved
no matter
how much
the potential
was ever
worth
the suffering
you're on
United
Flight Number
222
I think
we're over
Kansas
because
the earth
is covered
with squares
and rectangles
because the earth
is covered with squares and rectangles,
flying
back
to New York
flying back to New York,
covered with squares and rectangles,
sipping
a whiskey
sipping a whiskey,
flying back to New York,
no matter
how
old
and ugly
and I feel old
and ugly
and I feel old and ugly,
and I don't
want
to talk
to anybody
and I don't want to talk
to anybody
and I don't want to talk to anybody,
nothing
I've ever
loved
nothing I've ever
loved
no matter
how much
the potential
nothing I ever loved
no matter how much the potential
was ever
worth
the suffering
was ever worth
the suffering
was ever worth the suffering,
you're on
United
Flight Number
222
you're on United Flight Number 222,
I think
we're over
Kansas
[ think we're over Kansas
because
the earth
is covered
with squares
and rectangles
flying
back
to New York
sipping
a 'whiskey
no matter
how
famous
I become
no matter how famous I become,
no matter
how much
money
I make
no matter how much money I make,
no matter how
beautiful
I used to be
no matter how beautiful I used to be,
I'm always
totally
lonely
I'm always totally
lonely
I'm always
totally lonely
I'm always totally lonely,
and if I wasn't
a fucking
Buddhist
I'd love
to put
a gun
in my mouth
and blow
my fucking
head
off
in slow
motion,
and the pilot
says
we're flying
at 37,000
feet
over Kansas
wide
open
blue
evening
sky,
grasping
famous
I become
no matter
how much
money
I make
no matter how
beautiful
I used to be
I'm always
totally
lonely
and if I wasn't
a fucking
Buddhist
and if I wasn't a fucking Buddhist,
I'd love
to put
a gun
in my mouth
I'd love to put
a gun in my mouth
I'd love to put a gun in my mouth
and blow
my fucking
head
off
and blow my fucking
head off
and blow my fucking head off
in slow
motion,
and the pilot
says
we're flying
at 37,000
feet
over Kansas
we're flying at 37,000 feet over Kansas.
wide
open
wide open
blue
wide open blue
evening
sky.
grasping
at emptiness
I keep
repeating
this
to myself
I remember saying it to you,
you get
no cover
from your backdoor
lover
you're standing
at a subway
urinal
pulling
on your meat
cause
I want
to make love
to somebody
on my way
back
downtown
somebody
is SUCking
your cock
somebody is sucking
your cock
somebody is sucking your cock,
and someone
else
comes up
next to you
and someone else comes up next to you,
at emptiness
grasping at emptiness
grasping at emptiness,
I keep
repeating
•
this
to myself
I keep repeating
this to myself
1 keep repeating this to myself,
I said
it to you
I said it to you,
I remember saying it to you,
you get
you get
you get
you get
no Cover
from your backdoor
lover
you get no cover
from your backdoor lover,
you're standing
at a subway
urinal
you're standing at a subway urinal,
pulling
on your meat
pulling on your meat
pulling on your meat,
cause
I want
to make love
to somebody
on my way
back
downtown
cause I want to make love
to somebody
on my way back downtown
cause 1 want to make love to somebody
on my way back downtown,
you're standing at a subway urinal,
somebody
is sucking
your cock
and someone
else
comes up
next to you
and you're
kissing him
and you're kissing him
and you're kissing him,
the Howard
Johnson
toilet
on the Garden
State
Parkway,
the Long Island
men's
room
in Freeport,
I saw it
in a Walt Disney
cartoon
once
. saw it in a WaIt Disney cartoon once,
here
you're gone
today
here you're gone
today
here you're gone today
and all
I ever
wanted to do
was to love you
and all 1 ever wanted to do was
to love you
here you're gone today and aU I ever
wanted to do was to love you,
grasping
at emptiness
grasping at emptiness
grasping at emptiness,
I've made
so many
mistakes
in my life
I've made so many mistakes
in my life
I"ve made so many mistakes in my life
I only got
3 dollars
in my pocket
I only got 3 dollars in my pocket,
I'm sitting
in a car
on an expressway
in a traffic
jam
I'm sitting in a car on a expressway
in a traffic jam,
and you're
kissing him
the Howard
Johnson
toilet
on the Garden
State
Parkway,
the Long Island
men's
room
in Freeport,
I saw it
in a Wait Disney
cartoon
once
here
you're gone
today
and all
I ever
wanted to do
was to love you
grasping at emptiness
I've made so many mistakes
in my life
I only got 3 dollars in my pocket,
I'm sitting in a car on an expressway
in a traffic jam,
88
I like
dirty
,ex
I like
dirty sex
I like dirty sex,
I like it
when
you
cum
when I'm pissing
in your mouth
I like it when you cum
when I'm pissing in your mouth,
and hot
concrete
road
and hot concrete road
and highway
and highway
and overpasses
popping
and overpasses popping,
you haven't got
anything
to lose,
cause nothing you've ever done
has been any good
big ego
and hustle
it's all over now, baby,
and I don't know where
I like
dirty sex
I like it when you cum
when I'm pissing in your mouth,
and hot concrete road
and highway
and overpasses popping,
you haven't got
anything
to lose,
cause
nothing
you've ever
done
has been any
good
cause nothing you've ever done
has been any good
cause nothing you've ever done has been
any good,
big
ego
big ego
big ego,
and hustle
and hustle
and hustle,
and it's all
over now,
baby
it's all over now, baby,
you haven't got anything
to lose
you haven't got anything to lose,
and I don't know
where
the money
comes from
and I don't know where
89
the money comes from
it's all going to end
tomorrow
three
times
today
I dialed
your number
three times today
I dialed your number
three times today I diaJed your number,
you weren't
there
you weren't there
you weren't there,
I keep
thinking
about you
I keep thinking
about you
I keep thinking about you,
and I know
you're a reflection
of my mind
and I know you're a reflection
of my mind
and I know you're a reflection of my mind,
I'm lying
down
here
on my bed
I'm lying down here on my bed,
thinking about
when
I'm going
to see you
thinking about when I'm going to see you,
I'm going
to say to you
I'm going to say to you
I'm going to say to you,
don't think
too much
tonight,
baby
don't think too much tonight, baby,
the money comes from,
and I don't know where the money
comes from
it's all
going
to end
tomorrow
it's all going to end
tomorrow
it's all going to end tomorrow.
three times today I dialed your number
you weren't there.
I keep thinking about you,
and I know you're a reflection of my mind,
I'm lying down here on my bed,
thinking about when I'm going to see you,
I'm going to say to you,
don't think too much tonight, baby,
spend
the night
spend the night with me,
stay until the break of day,
share this night with me
in my arms,
I keep looking for the feeling I lost
when I lost you,
and it was bullshit,
and now, baby, it's chickenshit,
we're sitting on the green couch,
I'm hugging you,
we're kissing,
wish I knew how to make love to you,
with me
spend
the night with me
spend the night with me,
stay
until
the break
of day
stay until the break of day,
share
this night
with me
share this night with me
in my arms
in my arms
in my arms,
I keep
looking
for the feeling
I lost
when
I lost you
I keep looking for the feeling
I lost when 1 lost you
I keep looking for the feeling I lost
when I lost you,
and it was
bullshit
and it was buUshit
and it was bullshit,
and now,
baby,
it's chickenshit
and now, baby, it's chickenshit,
we're sitting
on the green
couch
we're sitting on the green couch,
I'm hugging
you
I'm hugging you
I'm hugging you,
we're kissing
we're kissing,
I wish
I knew
how
to make
love
to you
I wish I knew how
to make love to you
I wish 1 knew how to make love to you,
when
I was in
when I was in Rome Italy.
fettuc4l�i
alfredo,
Marion Javits give me another
hit of the popp.e;r,
you're not
going
to find.
what yo\\.
w\l1.\t
in this b"f
you, kn9w
you're no�
going to
find hill,1.
anywh.�re
you're cruising
the b.,..t\1s
\o.l?ki,J;\g 'I'
ttw dimly
-
*
r09W:$
t�ese guys
e9:s�Og,
fo�. pOf.nogr-al?hi�
,
p�9��r�s
\ w��\
t� waK� it
'With you
I want to make
it with you
1 want to make it
with you
Rome
Haly
w. hen I WaS in Rome Italy,
fettQchini
alfredo.
Marion
JavUs
give mQ
another
\>iI
of the popper
Marlon J�vits give me another
hil
qf tht:; popper,
YQl\'re not
going
t.o Hog
w1w,t yQQ
wl,1,nt
in this bar
yo�'re \1,0t $oing to find
whM you want in this bar
-yO\l\f� oot going to find what you want
ip, this par,
Y9;V. loww
yo\\.\r� Qot
S,0\1lg, to
f�uQ 'hi\ll
aQyw\lere
you. know you're not going
to nnq \lim anywhere
you knQw you're not going to find him
anywh�re.
yp,\l're Qf\lising
the bat!'!s
You 'r� \;lfuising the baths
�O,u're cruising the baths,
�o,o.�ing in
thJ� dimly
li�
rooms
10Qking in the dimly lit rooms,
tt�esl' guys
posing
f9f pornographic
pi9��res
{\WSc guys looking like
\hey're posing for pornographic pictures
I Wonl
t9 make it
with YOU
92
I want to make it with you,
the guy
in a Levi
shirt
with a hard on
the guy in a Levi shirt with a hard on,
YOll're walking
down
7th Avenue
you're walking down 7th Avenue,
and all
these people
arc passing you
and all these people
are passing you
and all these people are passing you,
everyone
of them
has a lover
everyone of them has a lover,
and how
come
I'm alone
we're in
your room
and we're kissing
and there may be
no
attachment
to the object
of grasping
and there may be no attachment
to the object of grasping,
but it's attachment
to grasping
but it's attachment to grasping,
alJ you got to do is look at it,
a hologram in my heart,
and dissolve it
pui!
the plug,
the guy
in a Levi
shirt
with a hard on
you're walking
down
7th Avenue
and all
these people
are passing you
everyone of them has a lover,
and how
come
I'm alone
and how come
I'm alone
and how come I'm alone,
we're in
your room
and we're kissing
we're in your room and we're kissing,
we're holding
you tight
we're holding you tight,
and there may be
no
attachment
to the object
of grasping
but it's attachment
to grasping
but it's attachment to grasping
all you
got to do
is look at it
all you got to do is look at it,
a hologram
in my heart
a hologram in my heart,
and dissolve it
and dissolve it
and dissolve.
pull
the plug,
93
turn the TV off,
is what
turns
into bliss
is what turns
into bliss
is what turns into bliss,
dissolving
desire
dissolving desire
dissolving desire
becomes
bliss
becomes bliss
becomes bliss,
pure
phenomena
pure phenomena
pure phenomena,
not
thinking
about it
not thinking
about it
nQt thinking about it,
taking it
ca.sy
taking it easy
taking it easy,
!;onfidence,
fearlessness
and tranquility
confidence, fearlessness anq tranquility,
but affer
all
these long
years
but after all these IOfJg years,
my Jl1editation
i�n't so
good
my meditation isn't so good,
the guy
on the 2nd
floor
the guy on the 2nd floor
is mostly
stoned
on grass
turn
the TV
off
turn the TV off,
is what
turns
into bliss
is what turns
into bliss
is what turns into bliss.
dissolving
desire
dissolving desire
dissolving desirex
becomes
bliss
becomes bliss
becomes bliss.
pure
phenomena
pure phenomena
pure phenomena.
not
thinking
about it
not thinking
ab9nt it
not thinking ilbmlt it,
taking it
easy
taking it easy
ta�1!1g it easy,
confidence,
fearlessness
and tranquility
�onfjqel1ce, fearlessness and trap.qQility
pure
empty
phenomena,
but after r,1I these long years,
my meditation isn't so good,
9.
is mostly stoned on grass,
listening
to disco
listening to disco
listening to disco,
aint no
way
I can
live
without you
aint no way
I can live without you
aint no way I can live without you,
standing
right
here
standing right here,
waiting
on your return
waiting on your return
waiting on your return,
I just Jove to turn the FM radio
to dancing music,
get stoned
sip some vodkha,
is mostly stoned on grass,
listening
to disco
aint no way
I can live without you
standing
right
here
waiting
on your return
I just
love
to turn
the FM
radio
to dancing
music
I just love to turn the FM radio
to dancing music,
get stoned
get stoned
get stoned,
sip
some vodkha
sip some vodkhu,
and think
and think
and think
and think
and think
-
The Hard Machine
TECHNIQUE
The original moehl". for .Iec
trlc: convulsive therapy (EeT) was
bunt by Bini. A large number of
modifications has be.n recorn
me-nded since, but many of the
machine' used or. still based "$"
,entlally on Bini's design. It can·
slsts primarily of a stop watch for
time regulation to fractions of a
,.(and and of devices for meas
uring and regulating the current.
Alt.rnoting current from electric
light circuits having (I frequency
of 50 to 60 cycles Is us.d. A volt.
meter regulotes the voltage to b.
oppUed. Th. orlglnol machine
had a second low·vallog. currenl
circuit for preliminary meo,ure.
ment of th. resistance of the
potlent's head. An automatic
time dock or various time relays
from 0.1 to 0.5 second or more
Interrupt the current after the
desired length of time. Haber de
vised an apparatus which gen
erates rectangular alternating
current, Independent of any city
current. Several workers use
machines which permit the set.
ting of the actual mill1amperage
to be allowed to flow through the
patient'. head. The reliability of
this development Is a matter of
controversy, however. All the
vorlous machines on sole Serve
their purpose to produce convul
sions. The simplest models seem
to be the best for they are not
complicated by many gadgets
which or. clinically unimportant
and a frequent cause for break
downs of the- machine,
Alphonso F. lingis
Savages
Of all that is savage about savages, the most
savage is what these people, who construct nothing,
who do no! even labor the earth, who write nothing,
do to themselves. They paint, perforate, tatoo, incise,
circumcise. scari fy, cicatrize themselves. They usc
their own flesh as so much material at hand
for-what? We hardly know how to characterize
it-art? inscription? sign�language? Or isn't all that
more like hex signs? Aren't they treating themselves
rather like the pieces of dikdik fur, bat's penis.
warthog's tooth, hornbill bird's skull they attach to
themselves? At any rate, i t excites some dark dregs of
lechery and cruelty in us, holding our eyes transfixed
with repugnance and lust. Otherwise, a naked savage
would be no more interesting than the baboons,
sticking out their bare asses and genitalia as they
scramble along, or the orangutangs, with their thin
hair that doesn't soften or adorn and thus really
doesn't cover over their gross bodyness.
The Mayas inserted the soft skull of a baby into a
wooden mold at birth, which llattened back the fore
head, and pushed the brain cavity out at the sides.
They hung a stone in front of the baby's brow, so that
it would become somewhat cross-eyed, a characteristic
they found attractive. They perforated the earlobes,
nostrils, lower lip, to insert wires, teeth of animals,
beads, chain.�, rings. They filed the teeth, and inserted
inlays of stone or obsidian into them. They clitorl
dectomized the girls and circumcised the boys, tatooed
the penis and inserted pieces of bone and colored
stones and 'rings into the flesh of the glans. They
scarified the plane surfaces of the body, abdomen,
breasts, buttocks, such that welts and raised warts
covered the body, in rows and patterns. They left their
fingernails and toenails grow into foot-long twisting
useless claws. They pierced the nipples, and inserted
97
rings in them. In most of Africa circumcision and clit
oridectomy-this inordinate involvement of the public
in your private parts, this cutting into the zone of the
most sensitive pleasure nerves and glands -is in fact
the main ceremony; most of the songs, dances and
instrumental playing the tourist who demands and
pays for the maintenance of indigenous cultural forms
in the neocapitalist African nations of today hears and
sees are in fact songs about circumcision and
clitoridectomy, dances these bizarre operations excite
in the encampments in the bush. As in the dreamy
equatorial paradise of Bali, the principle festivity, the
high-point of Balinese social existence, is the sump
tuous and hilarious cremations.
What we are dealing with is-to try to get scien
tific-inscription, graphics. In a prehistorical people.
Where writing, where inscription, was not 'inscription
on clay tablets, bark or papyrus, but in flesh and
blood, and also where it was not yet historical, nar
rative. We could say it was not yet significant, not yet
a matter of signs, marks whose role is to signify, to
efface themselves before the meaning, or ideality, or
logos. For here the signs count: they hUrl. Before they
make sense to the reader, they give pain to the living
sUbstrate. Who can doubt, after Nietzsche, after
Kafka (On the Genealogy of Morals. II, The Penal
Colony) that before they informed the understanding
of the public their pain gave pleasure to its eyes?
Moravia -distinguishes between what he calls the
psychological face, that of the African living in cities,
already civilized, arid the sculptured face of the
African who lives in the bush. Italian bodies are ex
pressive; they make, minute by minute, every part the
exterior their bodies present into signs. But they do not
scarify, cicatrize, c1itoridectomize themselves, like
savages. What they do is a work done on the surface
layer by which it is made to connect up, not with the
glandular secretions, digestive processes, flows of
blood, fermenting gases, bile in the inner functional
body, but rather with the intentions in the psychic
depth. The surface figures, articulations, moves are
made into a zone of systematic mediation between in
ward, depth, intentions and transcendent objects,
,
Severol types of electrodes are
In use. Metal strips or a mesh·
work mounted on a rubber
.ponge were originally recom
mended because they pormlt the
greotest adaptability to the
,hope of the patient's head, but
simple metal discs may also be
used. We .tlll very definitely
prefer Bini" forceps electrode In
which the electrodes are mount
ed by movable articulations on a
bearer sy.tem whose two arm.
act like the two blades of a large
forceps. This type of electrode
permits strong local pressure on
the head and can be much more
easily applied than electrodes
fixed with rubber bands which
Slip off eoslly when the patient
move. his head.
HANDliNG OF THE PATIENT
The patient's position was dic·
toted by the endeavor to prevent
'ractures, but the suggestions os
to how to accomplish this are di
verse. Many workers assumed
that hyperextension Is a suitable
way to prevent vertebral frac
tures. Hyperextension of the
spine was achieved by sandbags
placed under the curvature of the
mlddonol spine, by especially
constructed treatment tablos, or
by a surgical Gotch bed (Impos
toto and Almonsl) In which the
patient's bock rests on the ele·
voted port of the bed. We alway,
considered It preferable to have
the patient In a most relo)[ed and
unrestrained position with mod
erafe lIe)[lon of the spine. The
shoulders are lightly held byone
nurse in order to prevent ex
treme movements of the arms.
The legs are not held ot all since
we saw two cases of severe frac
tures of acetabulum and femur
obviously resulting from a too
strong "protection" of the legs.
A mouth gag is necessary In
ardor to prevent tongue bite. Un
like metro:z:ol convulsions, not all
patienls open their mouths of the
beginning of an electrically In
duced sel:r;ure, and It Is safer to
Insert the gog before the treof
ment; the lips should be protect
ed from getting between mouth
gag clnd teeth. The mouth gag
should be neither tao hard nor
too soft. We prefer a looplike
mouth gag made of two rubber
tubes, one within the other,
covered with gau:z:e. This pre
vents biting on the more precious
98
Incisors. Protection of the teeth Is
an Important problem which has
found too little ott_ntlon. In
potients with loose teeth, ond
pcuticulculV those with only a few
Isoloted t_th I.ft, the powerful
bite would toncenltetfe on these
few t••th. The use of musel. re
laxant, doe. not lustlfy abolition
of mouth gags because there Is
often suHldent 5trength left In
the low musdes to endanger the
teeth. Special mouth gags hove
be.n devised permitting oxygen
supply through on opening In the
mouth gag (Hard).
After the unpremedlcoted con
vulsion, thllt therapist's attention
should first b. directed to the
patient's respiration. A few artl·
flclal
respiratory movements
should be given immediately as 0
saf.,y measure. If the potlenl 15
very cyclnotlc, oxygen (:on b.
given, but this Is not Indispen
sable. After regulor respiration is
secured, the potient must be
watched so that he does not fall
aut of bed. Strops or sheets to tie
him to his bed should be avail·
able In case the patient becomes
assaultive In the postconvulslve
state. This may increase his
panic, but It Is unavoidable when
help is limited. No patient should
get up until he Is quiet and able to
answer simple questions satls
factarUy. Even when this Is the
case, the patient may stili misin
terpret the situation and be<:ame
dangerous.
POST·CONVULSIVE EXCITEMENT
Some patients, particularly
males, become dangerously as
.aultive,
develop
enormous
strength, try to e.cape, run
around and Inlure themselves,
and may .trlke anyone who at·
temph to control them. This
reaction Is nat specific for EeT;
we have seen It every time in a
patient having twenty consecu.
tlve convulsions produced partly
by metraxol , partly by electric
current. In some patients, excite
ment occurs only following the
first treatments, It seems to be
mare frequent in patients who
have a strong fear of the treat
ment. Individuals who show this
response often have had similar
experiences after general anes
thesia during surgery or when
they were Intoxicated. Some
workers have attributed diagnos
tic Importance to the postconvul-
goals, landscapes of the world beyond. The surface is
not laid out for itself; it is completely occupied by
signs which simultaneously refract your gaze off into
the street, into the horizon, into history where their
signified referents are, and open in upon the psychic
depth where the intentions arc being formed. Whence
this transparency of the Italian exterior; the cartilage
and opaque, rubbery padding of blind flesh with all its
lubricating and irrigating pores thins out; you see by
looking at him how an Italian fits into the field of
operations of the middle and high bourgeoisie, how he
relates to a landscape of renaissance palaces, baroque
churches, fascist imperial avenues, you see what he is
thinking and what he wants. The way she plucks her
eyebrows and he cuts his mustache, the signs she paints
across her mouth in phosphorescent paint and the
angle at which he braces up his cock in its pouch under
his nylon swim trunks-all that has nothing to do with
the tatooing and body painting and penis sheaths of
savages. AI! that is civilized, significant.
The�e cicatrizations, these scarifications, these
perforations, these incisions on the bodies of savages
-they hurt. The eye that looks at them does not read
them; it winces, it senses the pain. They are points of
high ten�ion; intensities zigzag across them, releasing
themselves, dying away orgasmically, into a tingling of
100
slve b.hovlor. Sorgont and Slater
felt that the true depressive gen
erally remains quiet and pleas.
ant, while the unrecognh:ed
schl%ophrenlc mor show suspi·
claus and aggressive behavior.
We cannot confirm this and f••1
that postconvulsive excitement
b.ort; no relation to the type of
psychoses, but that personality
'roits and pr&formed po".rns
ploy definlt. roles. The most J."
ver. excitement was s.en In (I
very good-natured potient who
was a wr.stler by profession and
who, therefore, was accustomed
to fight even In (I holf-consdous
state. Treatment of this readion
Is by intravenous Inledlon of so
dium omytal lmmedlot.ly prior to
treatment. In ECT under anoslh.
sig; p_ust-Ireotment excitement 15
only somewhat less frequent.
AMNESIA
Convulsive treatment is fol
lowed by amnesia which first In
cludes a long time-period before
the tre(ltment and gradually dim
Inishes to the events Immediately
prior to the treatment_ Stengel
demonstrated how the retro
grade amnesia shrinks only very
gradu(llly, while M(lyer-Gross,
who studied this symptom ex
perimentally, sow surprisingly
short retrogr(lde (lmnesia, This Is
mar. In accord(lnce with our own
experience. Som.thlng quit. dif
fer.nt Is the patient's frequent
amnesl(l for the entire psychosis
(Bodamer) or for on. single d.lu
sian (Delay, Delmas-Morsalet).
Observation s regarding amnesia
for the psychotic content are not
uniform, and no conclusion of
general v(llidlty can be drawn
from them.
HOSPITAL
It is easy to esl(lbUsh a pleasant
atmosphere 'n ECT units If those
admInistering the treatment are
aware of this problem. Wh(lt we
see In many treatment centers
contrasts str(lngely with the op
posite extreme of providing
music as an aid to the patient In
his experience with shock thera
py. Price and Knouss describe
thre. different types of music
which should be played during
the three stages of preparing the·
patient for the treatmenl , for his
return to consciousness and for
pleasure. In voluptuous torments, more exactly. and
not in contentment, that is, comafose states of
equilibrium. In intensive moments when a surface,
surplus potential accumulates, intensifies, and dis
charges. The savage inscription is a working over the
skin, all surface effects. This cutting in orifices and
raising tumescences does not contrive new receptor
organs for the depth body, not multiply ever more
subtle signs for the psychic depth where personal in�
tent ions would be being formed; it extends the
erotogenic surface.
Sure, it's a multiplication of mouths, of lips,
labia, anuses, these sweating and bleeding perforations
and puncturings, it's a proliferation of pricks, these
scarifications, these warts raised all over the abdomen,
around the eyes, these penis heads set with feathers
and haif, these heads with hair tressed into feelers,
antennae of beady and lascivious insects. The oral and
ana! phase not overcome, renounced, but deviated, the
excitations gone to seed, running everywhere, opening
up lips and sphincters all across the weaned body,
lunatic like the sea, according to Nietzsche, rising up in
a million lips to the ful! moon. The phallic dominion
decentralized.
But what does one gain by all that'! Isn't it civi
lized, efficient, to invest everything in your cock, and
incorporate everything in your vagina? Isn't all the rest
so much stupidity, savagery? What is more unnatural
than a savage?
In fact the libidinal zone is perverse from the
start, and is constituted in perversity. Freud finds it
beginning as soon as life begins-but by a deviation.
He does not see it in the sucking and in the pleasure of
sucking, that is, the contentment of filling up and be
coming a full sack of warm fluid. That is no more
libidinally productive than the cactus roots drawing in
the rain. He sees it in the slobbering, the drooling, in
this surplus potential left on the surface, and from
which the coupling derives a surplus pleasure. It is not
the holding in, or the expelling of the shit that makes
the dirty baby, it's the smearing it around. That is
why, in our analysis, we can distinguish two processes,
the production of the dosed and sterile body without
organs, full and contented, a,nd the production of the
libidinal excitations, the surface effects.
The white men, the electrical engineers and the
geologists on contract, have their own view of the ex
citations and of the earth. They are Rcicheans by
night, believing in total orgasm; they are, Dcrrida
says, phallocrats. for them the penis is the drive shaft
of the inner machinery of the body; it delivers the
power. That's how it works. For whitemen know how
things work, not like the jerk-offs in the bush. ThaI'S
the productive attitude, or, more exactly, the repro
ductive. But isn't that what sex is really about, filling
that hole with a man?
The savages don 't seem convinced. Freud neither.
An erection, it's true, that delivers the baby, but the
fun is not in that. Libidinally. an erection extends the
surface. And, of course, hardens it. concentrates the
tension, for the vuluptuous release. Opening up your
labia, letting the vaginal fluids run, that of course
delivers the egg. But the orgasms extend on the
surface. When you get laid you get laid out. The
Mobius band coils in on itself. but it's still all surface,
inner face or outer face, it's all equivalent. The
tensions dance. Ephemeral subjectivities, brief egos,
throb and get consumed down there, in the flows.
And it is hard. What is comparable to that feeling
tight under one's skin? That feeling of filling out, of
compacting one's skin? Mishima contrasted vehement
ly the vague, visceral, dark inwardness of the intel
lectual, loose and amorphous under his skin, with that
feeling (Sun and Steel). That phallic feeling. That
Arnold Schwartzenegger feeling-of having a hard on
everywhere, ankles, neck, everywhere, being a hard
on. coming . . That's the male deIluding, on the
beaches of Sylt, under the northern sun. The female is
complementary.
It's not an erotogenic surface, spreading perverse
ly its excitations over a closed body without organs
beneath. It's body and soul one, nature and culture
one, it's surface and depth one. It's the organism. A
functional whole, coded from the insid�.
And it's male, female. Human. Phallic. That is,
the whole body organized, as a lack of the other.
Which other? Alterity itself, the transcendent, the be
yond? Shiva, Sila, Ngai, Agazu? Oh no, here we are en
famille. For a mummy, for a big daddy. For Aga
memnon, for Jocasta. For mummy. for daddy.
That-is civilized nudity. It is also capitalist nud
ity. Der Spiegel features it every week; it goes with the
Leicas and the Porsches.
in short, there is, on the ant;. hand, a going be
yond the primary process libido to the organization
man. The dissolute, disintegrated savage condition.
with the perverse and monstrous extension of an ero
togenic surface, pursuing its surface effects, over a
closed and inert, sterile body without organs, one with
the earth itself-this condition is overcome, by the
emergence of, the dominion of, the natural and the
functional. The sane body, the working body, free,
sovereign, poised, whose proportion, equilibrium and
ease are such that it dominates the landscape and com
mands itself at each moment. Mercury, Juno. Olympic
ideal.
And. on the other hand, there has occurred a
phallicization. Such a nakedness, healthy and sover
eign, is at the same time nothing but the �ry image,
the very presence of a lack. It caBs for the other, tor
kisses and caresses, for the one that exists veritably
qua lack-of-a-phal!us. It cannot disrobe itself without
the rest period after the treat
ment. We are not opposed to
such efforts, but the most Import
ant requirement 15 to ovoid ob
servation of. the treatment by
patients who are not only fright
ened themselves but through
their reports contribute to the
opposition against the treatment
by others.
COMPLICATIONS
Complications In convulsive
therapy were much publld-zed.
They are stilI overemphasl"Zed by
many psychiatrists. The recog
nbed concept of nil nocere re
mains the basic concept for every
physician, but it is not meant to
lead to therapeutic nihilism. The
surgeon does not refuse a nec
enary operation because of its
impending risks. Since active
therapy Is available in psychiatry,
it should be used for the benefit
of many patients even though a
few may develop undesirable
complications. Fortunately, fatal
complications In convulsive ther
apy are exfremely rar•.
We agree with Sargant and
Slot.,'s stat.m.nt that mental
dlsord.rs are as destructlv. as a
malignant growth and for more
terrible in the suffering they may
cause. Rlsb are therefore justi
fied. It 15 gratifying that the Penn·
sylvania Oepartment of Justice,
quoted by Overholser, express.d
an opinion to the effect that ECT
is of recognl-zed value and, there·
fOre, may be applied to mental
patients without the consent of
the patient or his family.
Frocfunu
and
O/Sciof;otlons:
The most frequent complications
in convulsive therapy were froc·
tures caused by muscular con
traction. The typ.s of fractures
occurring in metra-zol and ECT are
essentially the same and, there·
for., will be discussed together.
They have in common the fact
thc:it th.y seem to occur during
the first sudden muscular can·
troction when many observers
had reported hearing th. flrd
cracking of a bone. The fre
quently sudden onset of artificial
convulsions may explain why
fractures occur in this treatment
but or. seldom seen In .pUeptics
who customarily go slowly Into
the tonic phase of the convulsion.
This is also substantiated by th.
fact thot with the more sudden
and lightning-like onset In metro-
102
%01 convulsions, fracture. or.
mar. frequent than In ECT. The
delayed ele-etrle convulsion
should. themare, b. the least
lIkely to produce fractures, but
delay.d sab:u,... are difficult to
obtain due to inability to ••tlmate
the nec.ssary dosage. Lately, we
hove mode every eHort to us.
thre.hhold stimuli even If we
have to repctaf the stimulation
two, thr•• or more time. In suc'
cession. In the hope of obtaining
a slowly developing .elzur•• Th.
application of (I petit mol ,..
sponse, followed Immediately by
a second convulsive stimulus, II
another us.ful measure as In this
way the pcztlenl goes Into the
convulsion with a r.laxed mus
culature-. This procedure Is espe
cially de-slrobl. If the potlent I.
very tens. or .truggle, against
the treatment.
Hyperextension of the spine
wos recommended beeouse the
spine seems to bend forward dur
Ing the convulsion. An Important
attempt to clarify this problem
was made by Flordh, who demon�
strated under x�roy control that
the vertebNfI column during the
treotment ls nat bent forward but
camprelied In a longitudinal di
rection. This mechanism would
suggest that no position can di
minish the danger of fractures.
Special treatment of these ver
tebral fractures Is nol Indicated
and will frighten the patient un'
necessarily. Originally, ortho
pedic appliances were recom
mended but they are superflu
ous. Schmieder found that when
treatment is continued after a
few weeks, compressed verte
brae are more resistant to new
damage than are healthy ones..
We continued such patients and
we have sometimes seen even
the pain disappear during subse.
quent treatments.
burpled from: SomatIc Treotments
In PsychIatry by lo,hor 8. Kallnow.
dry, M.D. and Po"" H. Hoch, M.D.,
Grune & SfrO'tton
SHOCKED
In 1966, 1971 and 19741 wos 0
patient in Glen Eden In Warren,
Michigan. I believe I was in the
hospital between 1971 and 1974
also however I have no memory
.
of It due to my shock treatments.
The exact dates can b. obtained
from hospital records.
being that visible, palpable lack, that want. And
through and through. We civilized ones feel not only a
repugnance for the unnat uralness, the unhealthiness,
the ugliness of that tatooed nakedness the savage
affects: we find it puerile and shanow. The savage
fixing his identity on his skin . . . Our identity is inward,
it is our functional integrity as machines to produce a
certain civilized, that is, coded, type of actions.
What then is this thing about savages? Who, in
stead of laking that train to the beaches of Sylt, flies
off (0 the savages-with a ton and a half of gear,
shipped air freight? Very civilized people, no?
Capitalists.
To be sure, capitalism goes everywhere, and goes
to the savages too, to capitalize on them. The hour is
lale, in history; savagery cannot go on for much
longer. It's the lot of savages (0 get civilized. To get
despotized, first, tyrannized. Then colonized. Then
civilized. Priests go to them, and colonels, on a mis
sion, and executive managers, on safari. In short,
capitalists, to civilize them.
BUI there are also some few nuts-schizophrenics
-themselves highly civilized and capitalized, who gO
103
to them, in order to go back to or forward to savageryl
Whose libido is such that that is w}1at turns them on,
But they are the nuts of capitalism, Extra parts,
surplus products produced by capitalist means of
production,
For capitalism is the stage in which all the ex
citations, all the pleasures and the pains produced on
the surface of life are inscribed, recorded. fixed, coded
on the transcendent body of capital. Every pain costs
something, every girl at the bar, every day off, every
hangover, every pregnancy; and every pleasure is
worth something. The abstract and universal body of
capital fixes and codeS", every excitation. They are no
longer, as in the bush, inscribed on the bare surface of
the earth. Each subjective moment takes place as a
momentary and singular pleasure and pain recorded
On the vast body of capital circulating its inner fluxes.
Kant understood this when he wrote. in The Meta
physical Principles of Virfue. that a man, as a sen
Suous being, is a commodity whose "skill and
diligence in labor have a market value; wit, lively ima
gination, and humor have a fancy value . . . . " but that
money. which purchases all th]lt. and measures its
value, and which is abstract and independent of its rna-
In 1966 1 we-nt becO'use I was
depressed with family proble-ms
ond wonted morrloge- counse-I·
Ing. I sow 0' psychiatrist, Dr.
Morris Goldin, whose- nome- I
obtolne-d from Catholic Social
Se-rvlces, Or. Goldin told me that
the-re- was nothing wrong with my
marriage: that I WO'S emotionally
sick and should sign myself In to
Glen Ede-n. I did this becouse I r.
spe-cted him and belleve-d him to
be on authority on mental health.
He told me that I should have
shock 'reotme-nt and that it
would not hurt me or my unborn
child (I was four months preg
nont), He did not worn me of the
dO'nge-.., of shock tre-Olmont and I
hlieve- It wos glve-n to me- with
out informod conse-nt. I hod the-m
on Monday, We-dnesdO'y and fri
day for one month until my Blue
Cross Cove-rogo rO'n out ot wh1eh
point he- recommende-d to my
husband that I be- tronsforred to
Pontiac. I om Indope-ndont by no
ture- but be-come- very Ilcromble-d
and compliant ofter Ihe- tre-at·
me-",. When my husbond took me
home I wall borde-ring on COlO
tonic. I would store at the wall for
hour5. He would have me- hold
our ne-wborn boby and slop my
'ace genlly to try to snO'P me out
of it. We hod to hire- 0' womO'n be
couse- I could not toke core of
house or function. Through the
e-norts of my husband and my
self, In one year I become- better
ogoln.
In 1971 my lothe-r dle-d O'nd my
morrloge- wos foiling. I de-clde-d to
ge-l a divorce- and wos feeling
down. My husband ,olke-d me
into going bock to Dr. Goldin and
I agreed to do It to try 10 save our
mO'rrlage-. AgO'ln I O'sked for a
morriage counselor. Dr. Goldin
sold I should have more shock
Ire-olment which I did until my in
suronce- ron out O'goln and I we-nt
home. For thre-e- years I couldn't
work or watch TV. I hod to drop
out of colle-ge-. My memory was
leriously damage-d. I used flash·
cords fo learn to spe-ok English
woll ogoln; as there we-re mO'ny
words which I simply did not
know anymore. As on omote-ur
writer I found this very distres
sing. Many books thot I have- read
are- unkown to me now: as are
some neighbor5, frle-nds ond
many events. Whot I '89ret very
much, Is the loss of many, many
precious memories of my child·
ren growln9 up-I Simply don't
104
have them. Seven years of my
exldenc:e are almost wiped out. I
had believed that my mental m·
neSS was the sou(ce of my trou
bl•. Now I realixe that the shock
treotm4mts I had nearly de'
stroyed me.
AFFIDAVIT
Sept.mbe
18, 1976
I, J_n Rosenbaum, M.O" of
P.O. Box 401, Durango, Colorado
81301 do hereby oHest thot the
following statements made by
me Gr. true ood accurate to the
besl of my knowledge:
That I om currently the Dirac
tor �f Child Development and
Family Guldonce Instltut. In Our·
o"go, Colorodo.
That I have ",sided in
Durango since May, 1972.
That when I moved to Dur
ango, I wos In the process of
retiring. but due to the demands
of numerous physicians and con
sumers, ond due to their multiple
complaints about mentol health
services In this area, I ogr_d to
open 0 limited practice aKering
options to the cu"enl treatment
modalities
being
used
in
Durango.
Thot in the process of estab·
IIshln g this proctlce, It was for·
clbly brought to my attention 0
number of complaints about ex
cessive use, misuse, and abuse
of electro convulsive therapy
(ECT) In the community.
That I Investlgoted these
complaints and found mony coses
where the complaints we-r. valid.
That Dr. Howard Winkler is
the only psychlotrist In Durango
who uses ECT.
That when I wos asked bY,Dr.
Wlnkl.r in 1972 to cover his hos
pital practke, I refused, as this
would have put me In collusion to
practice that which I considered
to be unethical medicine.
That In the process of further
Investigation, I come to know
Rodney Barker, editor of the
An/mas Journal, In 1975. Inde
pendently of my Inleresh, Rod
was Investigating complaints
about excessive use of ECT in
Durango.
That to my persanal knowl
edge, he contacted the following·
agencies in order to obtain docu·
mentation: Mercy Hospital, Our·
ango; State Deportment of In-
(erial, paper or metal, token!), is of preeminent value.
At this advanced stage of capitalism, one has lost a lot
of regional, territorial, dvil, professional identities;
one is fina!1y more and more a pure succession of
pleasures and pains, of surface moments of subject
ivity, forming and disintegrating at the surface where
there are intensive couplings with what the flux of
capita! washes by.
The human, phallic protest is in reality a last-ditch
expedient. This effort to congeal into a unit, a func
tional whole, and maintain that by one's own efforts,
in the universal gym and on the bicycle that you ride
without going anywhere, in your bathroom. And by
this form of identity (0 be something someone needs.
Not capitalism, of course, which just needs hands, and
brains. Someone, a human being. A woman, lack of a
phallus. A man, bearer of a phallus.
It's a little discouraging, after all these years, to
realize that the problem boils down to that 'Of the one
and the many, more exactly, of the nature of the ident
ity involved in subjectivity. The arithmetical solution
seemed the simplest, to the Western mind; ascribe
everything to a transcendental ego. What one has, in
the air·conditioned bedroom, is an entity: a man, a
woman. A phallic machine, coupled on to a woman, a
womb. The subject, to which this complex, but
everywhere lined up, operation i� predicated, the
subject which is affected by it an and contented with it
all, is a unit, a transcendent selfsameness. It's behind
everything, the information-seat, it's under every
thing, the support or substrate.
But let's try, now, to see things from the libidinal
point of view, where the egos are multiple and super
ficial, surface effects. They form at the couplings,
where an excess potential develops. A mouth, it's
adjustable. It can couple on to a nipple�or a bottle,
or a thumb. A hand can curl around a breast, or an
arm, or another hand, or a penis. An ear is an orifice
in which YOIl can insert mother's or lover's babble, or
a finger, or a penis, or a cheetah's tooth. A baby in a
buggy, a savage in the bush, proceeds by bricolage,
and not by blueprint. As long as the inner sack is
filled, what does it matter? The body without organs is
profoundly indifferent to these surface couplings. No
ego still burn� in the suffocating morass down in there,
in fhat, Jd. The moments of subjectivity, of pleasure
tormented with itself, of torment incandescent with
itself, are all on the surface.
As a result the egos that form are not necessarily
of the male, lack of a vagina, form, and of the female,
lack of a penis, form. There are lips sucked out on my
thighs--places where the green mamba kissed me, and
these incisions that remain, to mark the pain and the
pleasure. The couplings multiply, extend the libidinal
zone. They \eave their marks, so that one can return to
them, or, more exactly, so that an egoism can take
pleasure at these points where tensions accumulate,
105
can consume that surplus energy. We have to not only
fasten our attention to these multiple and unstable
erotic identities, which requires a certain discipline so
that we do not slide back into our civilized habit of just
ascribing everything to some ineffable, transcendental,
but simple, selfsame ego activating everything. We
also have to try Ip maintain that strange neoplatonic
logic of identity involved in the Id, in the closed and
full vesicle whose membrane is irritated and inscribed
by these excitements, and which is all closed in itself.
inert and sterile. and yet is indistinguishable from dirt.
from the closed body of the earth itself-like the One
in Plotinus from which emanates another one, which
cannot get out of it enough to make two. These cuts
and scars on the face of a Yoruba are the claw-marks
of Agazu, but they are not jUst zones of his body
destroyed by the totemic leopard, for they are his
pleasure and his pride and his very identity. He arises,
out of this coupling, as the one that was strong enough
to be chosen by, and to hold the embrace of, the
leopard. And this identity, this subjectivity, is not just
attached to the physiological unit of this Yoruba male,
it is attached 10 the leopard land. What social security
identity, by number, can compare with this identity
born in pain and pleasure, voluptuous identity?
It belongs to the nature of graffiti not to pay heed
to borders, to spread right over obstacles, to make
walls of different angles, doors, openings all the sup
port of one inscription that pursues itselL The in
scription extends the erotogenic surface.
It is also a first codification of desire. Not coding
in the sense that the operation of every machine, of
every gene and cell carries its own code, by which its
operations are internally determined. Codification in
the sense of conventionalization, socialization. But
this socialization is already oppression, forced from
the outside but working within by repression.
We said that these incisions. these welts and raised
scars, these graphics, are not signs; they are intensive
points. They do not refer to intentions in an inner
individual psychic depth, not to meanings or concepts
in some transcendent beyond. They reverberate one
another. But they are lined up. Warts and scarifica
tions in rows, in circles, in swastikas, in zigzags.
What is the nature of the system involved? These
are, for the most part, not representations. The Japan
ese art of tatooing pictures of animals, people and
landscapes on the body belongs to civilization and not
to savagery. But the patterns of marks are also not
governed by a logical grammar. Thus we have to fix
the
level
at
which
inscription
is
neither
representational, pictogrammic, commanded by
sensuous originals, nor alphabetical, made to
correspond to phonic originals, nor ideogrammic or
logical, corresponding to a conceptual order, to ideal
stltullons {Colorado}; State D..
portment of Sodal Services
(Colorodo): and Colorodo Foun
dation for Medical Care.
That he was refused Infor
mation on an public cases, with·
out ellceptlon.
That one such case that was
brought to my attention was that
of X.
A letter 01 authorization was
obtained from her by me to exa
mine her medical records an or
about February 18, 1976. I ex_
amined her records of a psychia_
tric hospitalization at Community
Hospital, Durango.
That in studying these rec·
ords, I observed that on informed
consent ogreement was not fmed
out by the patient. Neither was
a separate Informed consent
agreement filled out or signed by
the potlent.
That I further observed that
the administration of ECT did nOf
coindde with the diagnosis of the
patient. She was originally ad
mitted to Community Hospital
with the diagnosis of a person·
allty disorder 01 an hysterical
type. a diagnOSiS for which ECT is
absolutely counter-Indicated ac·
cording to the guidelines for use
of ECT as provided by the Ameri·
can Psychiatric Assodation.
That she was readmitted to
the hospital one month later with
a change of diagnosis to severe
depressive reaction, asthmatic
bronchitis, and thyroid disorder.
lhere was no history of either of
these medical conditions. Also,
both of these conditions would
rule out the use of Eel. She reo
celved a series of sill (6) shocks at
this time. Shortly thereafter. she
made a suicide attempt.
That subsequently, I was re
fused access to these records by
the hospital administration, and
furthermore, denied a copy of
sold records.
That In the process of Inves'l_
gating the numerous unethical
psychiatric practices In Durango,
I discovered that they were wide
spread throughout the country.
That as a result of this, I
recently resigned my seventeen
year membership in the Amerl·
can Psychiatric Association, as
this organization has consistently
refused to take a stand against
fully r.cognit..d members who
daily and on a massive bosis,
violate the ethics of medicine.
That I have 0150 observed
many other �ases of misuse of
eCT, Induding its odmlnlstratlon
to �hlldren In Durango.
That I have no motivation of
a monetary nature, as I am finan
cloily Independent and In the
process of reUrement.
That I hove become a memo
ber of the Citizen's Commission
on Human Rights for the purpose
of erodlcGflng unethl�al psychla.
trir; practice, In this area and this
,tote.
Renorch Contributions by the
Citizen's Commission on HUmon
Rights.
PSYCHIATRY eVALUATED
John Suggs,
Appellee
•.
J. edwin laVallee,
Superintendent
Clinton S,ate Correctional
Institution,
Appellant.
KAUfMAN. Chle'Judge: (concur
ring)
I concur In Judge Oakes'
meticulous and well·rtJOsoned
ciplnlon. I would merely add thot
his painstaking eJt'position of the
unfortunate details of Suggs',
"�aming of age" points to an
emerging ond highly significant
problem In the low, nomely. the
troubled relotlonshlp between
the vagories of psychiatric evol·
uation and the difficulties of
judiclol determinations of In
competence. At the time of
Suggs's plea, before one could be
deemed Incompetent to stond
trial In New York, a iudidld find·
Ing wos required that he WtlS In
"such a stote of idiocy, Imbecility
or Insanity as to be incapable of
understanding
the
chorges
against him or the proceedings,
.
or of moking his defense .... New
York Code of Crlm. Proc. §662b(l) (McKinney Supp. 1970).
Of course, psych/otrlsts ore
Invariably enlisted to aid In such
determinotions. Yet, psychiotry
Is ot best on Inexad science, If,
,nd.-d, lt is 0 sdence, locklngthe
coherent set of proven under
lyin9 ,,:,olues necessary for ulti·
101
merle decisions on knowledge or
camp.tence. It Is suited, as It
should be, to the dlClgnoses of ill·
nen or maladiustment for the
purposes of tntofment. Judges,
on the other hand, while pro
vided with (I set of determinate
volues through the devvlopment
of legal principles, simply lock
the expertise to apply meaning
ful standards in Individual cases.
And, unfortunately, because of
the imprecision of the norms In
this area, much Is lost In the
translation from psychiatrist to
ludge or lury, between diagnosis
and decision. This problem is
even more striking where on In
dividual Is found not guilty by
reason of Insonlty. There, the ab·
sence of a coherent psychiatric
notion of YoHtion ond of work
able legal stondords r.sults, It
has been repeatedly claimed, 'n
the administration of ad hoe:
justice.
Throughout his tortuous ten
year history In the e:ourts and In
the psye:hiatrie: cllnl($, John
Suggs- was-and stili Is-a victim
of our InabJlity to deal adequat..
Iy with this dilemma. It Is clear
from the record that his behavior
Is blnaro and destruc:tive, and
that he has never had mue:h mare
than a tenuous grasp on reality.
Perhaps Dr. Mossingor's as·
!essmont af his e:andllian as
"emotionally unstable, with de
prossive and paranoid tronds" Is
corroa; perhaps Dr'-Lubin's dlag·
nosis of his e:andlflan of "se:hi:r:o
phrenla" may be more accurate.
fortunately, we neod not roas
sess tho medie:al testimony.
Judge Duffy, who e:onsldered
Suggs's e:amplote psye:hlatrle: his
tory for the fint time, was clearly
e:orrect In his dedslon to redeler·
mine the ilSuo of Suggs's e:ompo
lene:e at plea, and his findings
havo ample support in the ree:·
ord. Yet. ono cannat holp but
have the gnawing uncertainty, In
dedd'ng after ten yoars that dvil
e:ommitmont proceedings might
be appraprlato. whethor both
ludges and psy(hiatrists havo led
Suggs on a long day's journey
Into night.
UNITED STATES
COURT Of APPEALS
fOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT
No. 137-September Torm, 1977
(Argued September 2, 1977
Deddttd January 2 1 , 1978)
Ooe:ket No. 77·2053
Bernard-Henri Levy
The Argentine
'Model'
Robert Guidice. 50 years old, a
merchant by trade, lives on Para·
guay Str••t. He asked to $•• me,
and despite my reservations, In
sisted that I print his name. He
sat before me, slouched In an
armchair, and I hod the stronge
Imprlltn!on that while h. was
speaking to me. he neither lOW
nor heard anything. He was
nothing more than a hollow,
monotonous ,yolce. narrating
anonymously and absenl-mind·
edly. It wos nonetheleu his own
story that h. came to tell me. An
atrocious and unbellevoble story
of a "lIving·death".
It all b&gan (I year ogo, one
winl.r night, when a group of
men broke Into his house on
Paraguay Str••t. Everyone was
herd.d Into the dining room:
Guidice and his wife, their oldest
doughter. age twenty_two, and
the three small children, ages
eight, nine, and eleven, She was
the one for whom these un
known men had come. The next
day , when Guidice went to the
police, they at first refused to
register his writ of habeas cor·
pus. "Your daughter", they tald
him, ''has undoubtedly been kid
napped by an unofficial group.
We'll find her sooner or later, but
only if you keep your mouth shut
and take your misfortune pa
tiently."
Months went by, cast in an un
Imaginable atmosphere. Perlodl·
cally, a policeman would come
by to collect five or ten thousand
pesos in exchang e for meager,
useless bits of Information. One
forms. They are, we said, lined up with one another,
the duplication is lateral, in the same plane. Penises
and fingers, vaginal, oral and anal orifices repeating
themselves. The repetition across time of intensive
discharges of which they are the centers gives rise to a
repetion of intensive centers across space. But putting
it that way is to speak as though we have a time and a
space already given apriori, in which the excitations
occur, repeating themselves and projecting new sites
for themselves. In fact it is the pulse of intensification
and discharge that is the first form of a moment in life,
and the libidinal impulses first mark out , or
temporalize, a time made of moment upon moment.
And it is the incision and tumescence of new intensive
pOints, pain-pleasure points, t\lat first extends the
erotogenic extension. What we have, then, is a
spacing, a distributive system of marks. They form not
representations and not signifYing chains, but figures,
figures of intensive points, whose law of systematic
distribution is lateral and immanent, horizontal and
not transverse. This Nuba belly is a chessboard or pin
ball machine; there are places marked, fixed, but each
place communicates laterally with further places, and
the ball you shoot into it can jump in any direction
from any place, according to the force with which it
SpIllS.
$0 far we have been envisaging the inscription
purely as productive. By its material operation-by the
incisions, the scarification-and by its systematic dis
tributive spacing-which proceeds by repetition and
divergence-it extends the erotogenic surface, pro
duces a place or a plane productive of pleasurable tor
ments, of volup!l1oUS moments of subjectivity. But
these very �ame intensive points now become de
mands, appeals. For something, someone, absent.
They become marks for another, they form the gaping
opcnness of a demand, a want, a desire, a hunger.
They have not yet become signs-for what they refer
to is not something ideal, transcendent meaning, but
another intensive point; these scarifications, these
raised hardnesses on the pliable flesh cal! for another's
eyc, another's touch, finger, nipple, tongue, penis.
The reference becomes a lack, and its direction
unilatcral.
As I say. this is not yet a semiotic system. Yet it is
out of this kind of distributive movement of in
scription that the differen!inted material for a semiotic
system will be taken, and on this purely lateral and
llbidinal function of craving and want that the inten
tiona! reference of signs will be developed.
What is disturbing is the reversal we find here: an
intensive mark, produced by vuluptuous pain and pro
ductive of pleasurdble torments, becomes a point of
lack, demand, and craving. But there hal; not been a
dialectical reversal, from potentia! to craving, from
positive to negative. They are both there, in something
109
less than a synthesis. There has occurred a kind of de�
pression, a hollowing out, such that the force and
excitation of an intensity, productive of an egoism, a
local and intensive subject to consume it, becomes now
the force of a craving for another, becomes a demand
for, an appeal to another. This depression is the very
locus of repression and oppression; here is the vortex
where the explosive libidinal excitations are repressed,
and where the force of oppression by the social body
invests the -singular one. Here begins the breeding of
the herd animal, a form of life in which every impulse
is felt as a want, in which every excitation, every
libidinal intensity that prodUces a moment of
subjectivity, appeals to the herd. The ephemeral
singularity of subjectivity becomes intrinsically
gregarious; the human animal becomes socialized.
Nietzsche wrote that only the least and worst part
of our life becomes conscious, that is, gets verbalized,
gets put into signs. Bul more profoundly it is al! our
impulses, an our libidinal intensities productive of
moments of subjectivity, that get transformed into
signs, that is, into wants, demands addressed to
another, appeals made to another. A subjectivity com
pletely made of impulses, we become a bundle of
needs, of wants, servile animals, consumers. The force
of the libidinal excitations becomes the sniveling need
to be loved, AI! our productive forces, all the surplus
excitation produced on the libidinal surface, only
serves to bind us into herds of animals' that need one
another. The intensive surface of our life is exposed to
the public eye, not to the eye that feels and caresses,
that is pained and exhilarated, but to the judging eye,
the eye that appraises and evaluates, rewards,
redeems, and blames, culpabilizes. The eye that makes
human animals ashamed of their nakedness.
But these must not be taken as successive opera
tions. There is a kind of inscription that decrees,
condemns and punishes�a!l at once. Kafka depicted it
in The Penal Colony: the punishment is to be strapped
into the machine that cuts into living flesh, engraving
on the prisoner himself, and thereby making known
for the first time, both the sentence and the law itsef.
This kind of machine, contrived in the bush, is
especially circumcision and clitoridectomy_ Their su
premely public character is essential to them, and
contrasts with the scarification, cicatrization and ta
tooing one warrior, one woman, does on another.
They appear, we already noted, as the high-point of
the tribal self-celebration, and efforts- to abolish them,
by missionaries, shepherds of foreign herds, or by
public health officials, are resisted vehemently, as
though the very existence of the tribal bond itself were
at stake. Circumcision and clitoridectomy, done at 1 2
t o 14 years, and without anaesthesia o r hygiene, i s an
extremely painful torture, done by the public in one's
most sensitive and pleasure-producing zone. This in-
day, however, on the verge of a
breakdown and In desperation,
Guidice broke down, and with
out warning, decided to contad
the Ecumenical Commission for
Human Rights: Th.,e was an im
mediate roodIon; one week
IQter he WQ, kidnapped, ond led
blindfolded to a de.erted hous.
In the .uburbs of the capital.
Ther., h. wa. r.unlt.d with hi.
dQughter. now un«u:ognl:table,
emQcioted, almost toothless; her
body was covered with wounds,
and she was severely burned on
the neck, breast. and ,tomach,
by electrodes.
At this point the nightmare r.
.umed before his very eyes, the
eye. of 0 father, drowned In .ad·
ness and despair. A rat was in
sert.d through the young girl·s
vagina Into her stomach. As Q re
suit, she died. Can we soy ,hQ,
Guldic•. who was fre.d shortly
thereafter, is really allv. today?
It was deQr to m. ,hQt thous
ands of th.se tragediflos hov.
taken plac. within the past two
years. An archlted from Rosario
told me thot th.r. isn·t on. Ar
gentinian who hasn't been dl·
rectly or Indirwly Involved at
least once. And nevertheless It 1,
very rare for anyone to spanton·
eously talk about it. It's difficult
even to mention the sublect
without
wQtchlng the most
frl.ndly focflo Instantly freeze.
No. no one knows, . . No on.
wants to talk about It . . _
GenerQlly speaking, the terror
In Argentina Isn't as massively
and Indecently evident as we 50
willingly Imagine from alar. It Is
on infinitely more diffuse, CQPpll·
lory, and doistered system. x,
who knows more than a little bit
about It. even ciQims to have
learned the skill at the beginning
of his career, within the walls of
the famous Morine Academy.
"Here, the prisoners Gre G5'igned to small, very mobile
units. They are never tortured for
long in the some place. The some
goes lor the torturers; they are
never allowed to torture for a
long time. nor do they return to
the some prisoners. Everyone
circulQtes ceaselessly. Some·
times, we too have hGd enough.
So, they don't give us the chance
to get to know one another very
well, to get together and talk
about It." There Qte none of
Pinochet's concentration camps,
no pocked stadiums; only small
0,
V
1,
".
,J'\..
...
\.
.",
"
'v
..
.:,"
"
112
houses, cellars and apartments,
a total of sixty for all of Buenos
Aires, dispersed throughout th.
suburbs. Floating torture cen·
t.rs, Ilk. the "Bahia Agulrr.... In
short, a kind of archipelago
whose geography grows more
and mar. elaborat•.
Thus, lt Is not rare thot In order
to create confusion and to cover
up the froc.s, small groups of
prisoners are transferred, with
out apparent reason . from one
center to anoth.r. Sometimes,
two or three of them Clf. set fr••
ot th. door of the prison only to
b. imm.dia�.ly picked up by a
new team who toke them ClWOY
to 0 new cent.r. Prison adminis·
tratlon con then point to the rec'
ords showing fhot the missing
persons left th.lr units sof. and
sound. Even though at thot very
moment, they are again on their
knees In some elandenstine eel·
lor being tortured • . .
To this day, latin America has
had the sad privilege of embody·
ing th. t.rrors of a particularly
omniscient sta'e. Nevertheless,
the continent under Videla Is
being modernized and new fear
accompanies
newly
the
equipped and technologically
trained police who operate In the
shadows, In silence. Compared
to the long tradition of tropical
fascism, it b perhaps this Inno
vation which makes for the orig·
Inolltyof th. "Argentine Model" .
Excerpted from Le Nouvel Obser·
vateur, June 5, 1978
Torture In Argentina
They immediately put cotton
ov.r my eyes and bound th.m
with masking tape so that ,
would not see their faces. But
since the cotton becam. quickly
soaked, I was obi. to see by
throwing my head back. , real
Ixed that we were in a house and
not In a military camp as Ihtty
wanted mtt 10 bellevtt. I was also
able to s_ a young man who
was despalredly crying. , moved
doser to talk to him when our
guards hod 'eft us alone for a
moment and I learned that at the
marine Academy they had tor·
lured his wife In a terrifying
manner; they cut off her hands at
the wrists with a hacksaw. caus
ing a hemorroge so great that
tial, accumulating on the surface, consumed by local
and momentary egoisms. What is beneath, what is the
fuJI and sated body upon whose surface they effer·
vesce? An anonymous, sterile and inert body, a certain
stock whose worth is determined by the universal body
without organs of capital, which measures everything
and distributes all the pleasures and pains. Itself just a
fund of capital, then. This kind of dehumanized, de
phallicized, insignificant . . . entity is the final product
of capitalism. I was going to say: this kind of subjec
tivity-but what there is here is not a subjectivity, but
a split, fragmented, dismembered, disintegrated field
of momentary subjectivities, forming in pleasure and
pain. Schizophrenicized subjectivity.
And it is this kind of schizo personality that goes off
to the savages. Not to live with them as among broth
ers and sisters. Not to find real men, and real women,
finally, to fill up that aching hole, that phallic lack you
have made of yourself. But to feel the sun in the empty
savanna, to stand in antedeluvian landscapes un·
marked by all history, malignant bush country, whit
ish plains without contour Or dimensions where there
is nothing moving but the termites and the tsetse flies,
the squalor of eternity . .
And to collect pictures, some beads and neck hang
ings, some feliches, some warthog's teeth, to stick in
your mouth, to suck, and to get i n some hours flying a
private twoseater over the Mountains of the Moon,
parasailing alongside the Indian Ocean, scuba-diving
in equatorial waters. Putting together your own plea
sure chains, out of the debris of civilization, not
according to its codes, by bricolage. Like savages do.
But driven by a libido that wants to wander off to
the land where there are those who are kissed by the
green mamba, who are strong enough to be chosen by,
and to hold the embrace of, the leopard.
-February, 1978
Kenya
113
sh. died within (I few minutes.
Ha hod olso seen them cui a
women In two, from her vagina
to her head. And because h. saw
this, they were going to kill him
also. I was so terrified that I
dragged myself for away from
him and spoke 10 him no more,
so horrified was 1 by his account.
I remained thor. se"eral days,
night and day haunted by the
cries of those being tortured. Fi·
nally. I was set fre•. They drove
me Into the dty, blindfolded and
hood.d, Insulting me and sholSt·
Ing 011 the while that the next
time, they would treot me with
less tenderneu-they would kill
me right away. Then Ih.y left
me.
_Translated by Tom Goro
Testimony of Emo Poroflorito, re_
corded by the Argentine Com
miuion on Human Rights.
'Ae.adelnk Approach to Torture
Mr. MitIione, �ead of the United States
Agency for International Development's
publk safety program in Montevideo..
was killed by Uruguay's TUpamaro guer
rillasfollOWing his kidnapping in 1970. At
the time, the State Department denied
charges by leftists that Mr. Mit rione had
participated .In the torture of palitial
pm.no....
"Ifyou ask me whether any American
official partidpated in torture, I'd say
yes, Dan Mitrione participated," Mr.
Hevia said at a news conference. "If yoo
ask me whether there were interroga�
tinns, I'd say no, beeause the unfortunate
beggars whO were being tortured had no
way Of answering �use, they were
asked nO questions. They were merely
guinea pigs to shOW the effect of electric
shock on different parts of the buma:n
bOily.
M-r:. Hevia, Who attetlded high �hool at
Watertown. COM., in the early SO's and
speaks perlect English, said that the in
terrogation ·courses brought by Mr. Mit
none involved the use of electric Shock!:
speciaJ chemicals and nwdem psyclJolog�
ical techniques against detainees.
"'[he special hOrror of the course was
Its academic, almost clinical atmos
phere," he recalled. "Mitrione was a per:.
fectionist. He was coldly efficient, he in
sisted on economy of eHort. His motto
was: 'UIe right pain in the right place at
the right time.' A premature death, he
WOUld say. meant that the technique had
failed. ..
·1". .I...y"",,-,,_,
�·ql'''8
Aerolinea<; Ar�entinas lll11l0Ul1Ces the lowest priccs
to Soutli America, the best schedule to
Soutl1 ,\meriea lll1d a1e worlds newest terminal.
.\11 thi�
I,
'"
,\crolineas Aq.�entinas <umOllllees the lowest pl'iees
to SOlltJl Amcrien. the best schedule to
South .\lI1crica mu\ the wodd's llcm:st tennillaL
!,
\,'1"' ,::n,'"c. ,\I:""llliO:1:'- i� Pi" .ud 1, " UIIl"llll,-,' ' ·Hi" '1,'\1 \1 '1-::\" C'I\"
, \, ' I' ,,1 ' , 1<", «,',;;0 1'1" 'III \,.,,-i( 1"1, t·, Blll'H' '" \,;, ". ;:77,:;, .\11 r< 'UllF] " -I ' ! • '. " , '.,
\,,1 n,;dll.l, ,1\ litle'" i I, In-I I'h'an Ii,,,d! \\O�kc,_� I Ii, " � , ' ',;' " I "" 11<,,11,1--. 1 , ',':" , c:' ;1 'h'h,�1 �ch,'dl l k l < ' �'lidl .\IlI'·ri,': , , 'I - "I\ ,>1,-1"1, in !!', "" I I I
s <li,-, , I Ilj'.dI1�
,I \'. , \ I, 1 , . 1 11<,11' ,,, ,\'J, ' I I', I " "
.
: . , I I \n,-n.,� I,r,-". .\c'I' ,1"" ", \F-,:C H I ill.,� Il'I� I ' " i "\,, ,,,', I I"" ,II II " '1'-' " , I i i
, " iU<h" I, \",T\ h""n"lh 1\ ' I I ; , 'iOl , ," [ i . ,H,," I ',n
·,Ii· '1 'J (Ill'� ,-i,kl "'e: ;m,J I, .,\ ,n�� Iii,' \ ', '11"11 \,,1 . . II , I�,
. . ,I;
! I, 11I1I'i"I'.,lIHI ." li" I" k·, ,.11,,\\·, ' '"' h ,,:11 ,,1" , , " .,:, I' 'U,I.. ,! "
1 ,
" I .. , - , : . t , " ",','"""In \ \,·'Y !'la...:JUllo...r...n
.Jli�" "'".;:w.",,L___";_-'
Kathy Acker
( Pcst
L
Sl:trrfl :
The Persian Poems
121.
�· �ib t.o know
..
rr
1.
CUl:. 0 -\4
•
.. .
p
1I' .L.tjj
I .,:)
.
.
.u
/.
. . . 1w I�
.
. . . .ll
.
.)
... .GT
.
. ..
. . . :J )
;) I
)
.
)_,.:7
. . . ...t..;l
'" ;$
,
J8
.. . , <"
/
·
.
/
..
. . . J ttl
... .luJ b
( PrE-S E n t sh. rm :
/
I. h E.. . - a n (. 0' f .
�.
\:.
«(
I)
havE.
bo y
wa n t
s U:.
cams
bEat up
SO t
ro b
K i d ()o P
k d .l
k no w
'
.•
117
118
123.
,
I,
V )
, . .
1::
.r;;-;
•
beat up
ro b
kidnap
to havs }am.y
to buy JOnf_y
to wont }anE.Y
to �E.t. Ja n Ey
to corm £.. JOnEY
to
E.O
/:
;�
Jam.Y1
JanEy
to bE.ot up
to rob Jan E.y
to k i d nap '}OnE.y
to k l LL
JonE.Y
to know J onc�y
"\
119
;),,,....,.,... into
..
t. hot
EnqUsh : )
to thE- srmoLdHL n9 ship 's
Wen.
carry ing
nn s
a Lon9) CJ'ld
"' ....... I .shouLdn I i: havE-. I should
rry ffil S
buoy a.nd iurm pf.d ovc:.r�
-flag9Ed down a pa.ss Ln9 tramr:
fb£.rs
I �l I t
1 ewb.Ll o� ;)-10
blaCK hf.o d htrc:. ?
grabb€.d
; and
000
Q
strai9ht back t.o t: h£. A t.hw.5
t hs
Q
Gw \
oCrport.
.
� .) p
( .Jdn�y») i. e.s
..
.'.1'
.
.
'."
" (LI
ciS;>
>-
ii\i,{.i ,i':i!i!
,2.
125.
l s n ' r tilt. pro pE.r t.'i
.. III "/I)
U
0t J"onE.'fJ
/ :.
� .•.
) ,,� /). /rBJ.. �
J+.J
J"' Lw..,
.. "
IS
Th�rE. OfUln Ony bla ck hEa dS
4.
o�
"
I
in t hE..
Te. hron.
J�G
' , -1.- " l1, 1 Y/i\ "
\ oL
Lu.u
\.(fJ .
..
) j-!
J o/. J> j ..
·
G.wT ::>;}.5 r
�·)·..c
':"' jT ). T J 3
/
5.
ThE. shE-d.s
+or
Cl
O lE.
long t LrmE..
bLock. 'You
You
+Ofgd.
havEn ) 1:
haw
t ..
in UEd (
St.rISLtlVL you O lE,. You hur l::. H urt h u ri:
hurt hur l:
hurL "You nTl E.d. thE,
i n t h E- wor l d and
\fou
tQ ll
n l ct:. s l:
in l OVE- wilh
you mJQ\IOg E. to gd: Into his
hOUS f_ o(ld 'You sland bE.�or s hilln. A gid
'You do and
puts hErs Ur oui: on
Cl
L ins.
A g ir L L.)ho
121
122
1 27 .
�d;W
Co.
7.
0,919
soul
tOts
� (w/& o)/j' G.ili f
Is t hEn. on'{ +rEsh ffi'\E..Ot ?
c.wT h S;� )Lo � J (/T..;\ $ J� �0
YE:.s
M rs ,
.JOfl'C..'j ) 5.
Dut
'four WE-ot
�.
is
..
bdh.r t. ha n
( I , ,,
.. .. /
l.J,:) oS
/
ell
Is t hCfE..oo'{ �ah. ?
"G
G.wl h- .J G J � J· T ·1) Gt; 1 f"'--l
'1. 'YE.S M rs , "{our +otE.. 1 5 bd:h.r t. han .Ja
8.
10.
I. .
«
VI
•
S
/
if ti l )
lJ y,
A L L t hl:. pE.Opl 'C.. o rE.. cont Ent. »)
..
.
I
( I , "AI
c..i)
<
.J
u;
J
U..
.
123
Richard Foreman
14 Things I
Tell MyseH
when I fall into the trap
of making the writing
imitate "experience"
1.
The art. . . aims to reflect something that "stands under"
experience, rather than experience itself.
Each situation we are in, each experience, quivers with
the different
not-yet-known.how-to-use
ways in which the materials of that situation might
otherwise be combined, organized, set to work upon each
other.
Against that free�play of elements as a backdrop, one
(in life) makes one's choice of act, thought, gesture
125
(a choice always rules by the need to echo, imitate or
extend previous choice�patterns in order that that
choice shall fit within the pre-defined limits of
the rationaL)
But! It is those continually REJECTED choices of the
backdrop, never articulated yet always present as the
un-thought 'possible', which give plasticity and depth
and aliveness to what is chosen.
Our art thcn, to discover the secret of liveliness, shows
by example
not-what choice to make (as does all theater
which imitates 'actions')
but-shows, concretizes, that which-though
<it cannot he chosen-stands under
what is chosen, so that choice is alive and
energized.
The noHhought, the purposeless, which nourish all activity
and experience. The acts of the play arc then a series of
acts and gestures not-chosen in life, w.hich for that
very reason serve as the roots of life's (or should we
say consciousness's) liveliness.
2.
The audience must watch not the object, not the invention,
but the way in which the object twists, is displaced,
distorted.
But the important thing is to realize there
is no agency responsible for this twisting, this
distortion-there is a groundless displacement which
is the very source of the play's meaning, and the
very seat of consciousness (concretized by the play) itself.
This groundless twist, picks up the objects at hand
and fills them for a moment, gives them being for a
moment, and then lets them fall back
into the sea of the non-manifested.
This groundless twist is the energy without a source
about which we cannot speak-only ride its back as it
were. The one choice we have is either
seeing and experiencing-which means
having no contact with the generating energy
or standing-under seeing and experiencing,
and so being where energy is; mis-matched
with it-but the double condition of
being-there and not matChing (i.e. distorting
it) being the only real condition
of self-reflexive 'knowing', which the play
-also mis-matched but being-there, knows.
3.
Our art then= a learning how to look at 'A' and 'B'
and see not them
but a relation
that cannot be 'seen'
You can't look at 'it' (that relation)
because
it IS the looking itself.
That's where the looking (you) is, doing the looking.
4.
The compositional principle is NOT
anything goes
but
only write that which allows itself to be
deflected by the world (which world includes
the act of writing, of course).
Most .st,uff you might write wouldn't be so deflected
(and so must be rejected). Either it would be too porous,
the world going through it without deflection;
or too heavy, it wouldn't budge-or it's in -a sealed room
where the world doesn't even notice it-hence no
contact and no deflection.
Writing is also the invoking (of the gap, the mis-matching,
which is where we are as consciousness, and which
is a force). The invoked energy or force isn't what
gets written. It arises, then in the staging, but it
isn't in the staging.
The writing invokes the force WHEN that writing is then
staged, so long as that staging is such that it allows
the force to come. The staging doesn't make it (the
force) but the staging gets the writing (which is the
original invoking) out-of-the-way in the proper way, so
that·then the force can be-there.
127
The force IS disassociation, consciousness, displacement,
a groundless 'twist' . . . . so it is there ·and not there. It is
'other ', it is 'possibility', . . . not as a category, but as
a force.
5.
Writing has not a subject
(aimed for)
but is a being-responsiveness, to the currents
within it as it generates itself. "It" is
writing thru me, and it is doing other
things also so try and show those other things.
It's not the item; it's how one slides off it,
leaving a wrent in the fabric.
Theme: that slidingness: which can't be said, because
to say IT would be to not-slide off IT being said.
6.
One must find ways to sacrifice 'what comes' to onc
in the writing.
Offer it up. . . to what Gods?
Destroy it as useful to us in daily life as-it-is. Rather
serve it up to the elsewhere in us.
The play is then a ceremonial ground. Certain operations
are performed. Not to tell (you) something. Not to take
(you) elsewhere. But an important and significant
activity goes on
which you watch or not watch.
But it isn't there for you or for me, it's for the
benefit of someone else, hidden within us both, who
needs to be fed so that everyday you and me can still
be alive in a way that has plasticity and aliveness of
thought and perception. Understand, it's not a question
of refining the GOALS of thought and action, but of
keeping the process itself grounded in a. kind of energy
that makes the process itself want to continue.
7.
In writing (as one takes dictation from what wants to
be written) the received is twisted. It (the received)
looks at itself through the twist (which is yourself) and it
(not-you) gets a sense of itself and proceeds.
And then that which proceeds. . . is received, twisted, etc.,
and the process continues and a text is generated.
8.
I'm lying on the bed.
Looking toward the window.
The curtain moves in the wind
A motorcycle noise in the street stops some other
process of watching going on in me.
1 write that down.
Desire plays through me for a moment.
Music from a window across the street and the sound
of water running in the tub.
128
A level. Everything level for a moment.
The writing is a certain thing
The action of wind, etc., noticed but not thought about. is
a certain thing.
The writing is imprinting
a certain noticing
on a certain existent system.
It never matches.
That's why displacement is a rule, and a generative
principle.
o. . . .
0
.
I make a model for the way it is.
One can't express the real experience.
Experience is one kind of making.
Saying is one kind of making.
The gap between is, of course, the source, the fuel.
Mis·match
Displacement.
So I don't (try not to) notice thought
But rather the gap between experience and thought
input
output
passive
active
What l write (notate) is the gap.
9.
The plays are. about what they do.
Which is 10 concretize (show) a certain sort of
system which goes�on i n mc.
In which lived moments.
. are open to displaced
energy which is objectified as an energy that wants
to handle and penetrate the object, and that handling
and penetration twists, displaces,
distorts the object (which is the lived moment).
As a result the lived moment is denied as a selfsufficient experience . . . . and re-constituted as an energy
exchange which, as it leaves the evidence of its being
on the page being written, is no longer an experience but a
mark.
In the beginning: the mark.
That mark, that concretized evidence is, for me, heavier,
denser than experience itself.. The play is an energy
diagram in four dimensions. A condensation of what
goes on in me, objectified.
I don't make pictures evoking the experience of things,
but notate what circles through us, leaving
a residual grid that makes experience then possible
(registerable). That grid . . . made intense . . is the
work of the play.
Experience is then burned up, petrified, sacrificed on
that intense grid of the play.
129
10.
Within the play as an object, there must not be
•A' theme, because one theme or meaning doses the doors
on all others-and ALL THEMES AND MEANINGS MUST BE
PRESENT AT ALL MOMENTS.
The organization of the composition should dis·organize
the ego (which is what wants a theme to be-at-home in) and
evoke in the self the dispersed self (in which ALL themes
are) .
(Simple dada & surrealism don't do that. Nonsense.
irrationality, don't do that, they don't dissolve the ego,
they are rather anti-bodies which, injected,
strengthen the ego. They wall themselves in from
the world as non-sensical or supra-sensical, which
only increases the need and ability of the ego to
define its territory as against 'external' , irrational territory.)
The OBJECT of the play, then, is to make the spectator
be like the play
(or recognize that he ;$ like the play)
I am like the play
(We are what interferes with us. Result, a kind
of self-knowledge. But whose self-knowledge?
There is no who. Only knowledge.)
11.
Always, at the beginning (which means finally) a sentence
wants to write itself.
Then, that sentence suggests a next sentence, because of
130
habits of association, because of a world in which we
are trained, taught that J;)nc thing must lead to another,
that there are paths to be followed like responsibilities,
etc,
To escape that.
Write the sentence that wants to be written.
But then pull away from it-or from the inherited
associations and commands and rules that
cling to it.
Pull away from it. Let something that inferferes.
twist
the sentence, as it emerges or in the next moment,
as you look at it.
There must be no theory of writing. The writing is
the phrase or gesture that floods one and wants to be written,
But then, there must be
A theory of what to do after the writing has
had its way and written itself as a word or sentence
or sentence cluster.
The 1st moment:
What floods one. Then, twist it. Find
ways to inhabit it, plant it
in the world NOT as a tool,
not as a lever to move the known in
known ways, but to turn it into a
self-reflexive item, around which a
whole new world crystallizes.
The 2nd movement
In staging.
. interfere. Let
the sentence be so crystallized,
become 80 intensely jt�elf, reflecting
itself. . . that interference actual!y
FEEDS it
Strengthens it in
its clear uniqueness by being
not-it in a subtle and
interfering way.
12.
The choice is to discover what is (clarity) by seeing
desire at work (not simply Jetting desire produce, because
its products often cloud seeing).
There is a choice-either seeing desire at work
or
Form production (which is to cover over what-is with
'what should be').
Make desire-energy produce a structure that is self_reflexive.
That is, make desire as it produces, produce the right
form, which is a form that will see itself (so that we
can see, through it, since the desire is us, what+is-there).
Is that not form production? Not really, because we
are not speaking of willing a certain form and
then 'using' desire to fill it.
We are speaking of working on the desire itself,
through conscious displacement, distortion, employing
a strategy of identifying with what�interferes,
Then, . , what is produced has the 'right' form whatever
the fonn of what�is�produced, Because when the desire
is producing, . . through identifying with what
interferes there is a displacement, it doubles itself
and so mismatched it sees itself. And the play is isomorphic
with that activity of twisting, splitting-looking at itself.
And the play at work is clear, not producing a form
but producing a doubling, a displac.ement which is a real mirror, and
clarity.
13.
The meaning is in the suppositions that start one:
In my case, small bits of experience and thought interfered
withhow the unconscious and the world (the same) get.in-the-way,
and how that interference is allowed.
The text =- strat(.'gies for allowing the world to interfere,
And making that interference one's own, as an
oyster makes a pearl of the interfering, irritant,
grain of sand.
Now-what is interfered with is NOT a project, or
aim, or narration
but just being-there in one's self.
If it is a narrative or project that is interfered
with. then the self is still there.
But interfere with just-being-there and the
self is dispersed
14.
So. . . Each moment has a different meaning, each moment a
different theme. The piece is about making oneself available
to a continual barrage of meanings and themes, so that
one is transformed into a being
spread, distributed
a different configuration of the self.
The composition always implies, no, no the meaning is
not here, but elsewhere, spread. The piece is always
pointing away from itself. Meaning is equally di!;tributed,
everywhere. Classical art. everything is focused in on
a certain theme, points to the center, each moment
cohering. Here-each moment takes off in a dIfferent
direction.
The unity is the procedural way of turning away
from the center. There is displacement, continual
replacement of one meaning with another.
There is a sequence of a certain sort of item, called
'possibleness of manipulation'. There is a straining
after certain figures that the mind�as*a·body
wants to articulate in space.
132
Exemplary titles:
Book of Levers
Action at a Distance
Theme: Showing that mental acts take place on a surface,
not in the depths.
Depth as the ultimate fantasy. The ultimate
evasion. Linked, of course, to a concept of
center. So de-center. Displace. Allow thought
to float up from the depths and rest on the
surface. Look at it. . . handle it. Match
your life to it . . as does the play.
The play, finally, must be fed and 'cootroned'
by a multitude of sources. As many as there are
'sources' of experience in one's own life.
That multiplicity, acting in concert, becomes the
'unity' of the process of continual displacement. Only
work to make sure no single displacement escapes
the immediate interference which must arise in the
next moment, allow no single displacement to begin
to build a wall around itself and form its own
kingdom, its own order of being. Such a
kingdom or order would be a return to the sleep
of experience within which most art keeps us forever
imprisoned.
Seth Neta
To-Ana-No-Ye
Anorexia Nervosa
Anorexia Nervosa: A term we can discard, latin modular medical lingo
identifying cipher of authority locating an anti-social practice (self starvation)
within the field of disease/disorder/danger/crime. Medical business label.
That day we often heard dogs barking some distance away. We assumed we
were near a village and two comrades went to investigate hoping to get some
water. They returned a few hours later, reporting there was no village. It
seemed odd, a dog but no village; we
We had a strict routine at the training camp. Early each morning we did
tough exercises. While the cold weather lasted our group did them in the
barracks, the others, however. trained in the snow. Then we changed for
inspection and afterwards did marching drills. We also had an intensive course
in Russian. On weekends we were taken to museums and historical sites.
One morning as we rested under some trees, a youth with his cattle
approached. We didn't want him to stumble on us as news of the presence of a
large number of well armed Africans in the area would spread very fast.
Before we could decide what to do he stopped and sat down by a creek some 50
yards away. Our troubles weren't over however. His cattle kept grazing closer
and closer to our position. We'd silently chase them away so he wouldn't come
after them but soon they'd graze close to us again.
anything, then to have control over your body becomes a supreme
accomplishment. You make out of your body your very own kingdom where
you are the tyrant the absolute dictator. " In this frame of mind not to give
Some will talk about it when they start to express their disgust with the
female body
later in college became quite popular. was disturbed by not feeling like her
own person in relation to others. She described one episode: "I was sitting
with these people but I felt a terrible fragmentation of myself. There wasn't a
person inside at all. 1 tried with whoever i was with to reflect the image they
had of me, to
Bebavior Modification
Professor Artbur Crisp (St. Georges Hospital, Tooting, London):
I said provided you achieve certain goals you will be rewarded in certain ways,
and unfortunately she stH! felt that she couldn't keep to this contract .
BBC TV: And how did it work out, what were the rewards?
Herr Crisp: Well the rewards were, for a start she was treated in bed as are
most cases of this degree of severity and the arrangement was that when she
reached a certain weight she would be allowed
uh
the sort of reward
would be a visitor or two visitors or a telephone by the bed, and so it
progressed so that at a certain stage she was a!lowed out of the bed for several
hours, and out of bed for half a day, fully up, Clothed, able to move around
the ward, go to occupational therapy, and so it progressed.
134
Occupational Therapy Reward
The treatment/cure of anorexics is the process by which the Clinic/Hospital
(medical production) through behavior modification, drug therapy.
psychotherapy. and hyperalimentation (forced feeding which bypasses the
mouth and digestive organs intravenously) returns/enslaves the anorexic to a
healthy body capable of fulfilling the role of consumer/producer (producer of
children. new workers, new consumers) prescribed to all organisms in a
consumer economy.
The clinic here is a factory whose product is healthy bodies,
ROSA RIKE
ROSA DORA
ROSA CHIDOR
DORA MORO
ROSA MEINS
ROSA DORO
ROSA SHIDORA
ROSA ADORO
DORA KOLWEZI
DORA MEINS
ROSA YEMEN
DORA ROSO
ROSA MORO
DORA MOURN
ROSA AD
ROSA KOLWESI
disease/desire/disorder
anti·organism
ANTI-CORPORAL!ANTI·CORPORATE
the body/arena for the exercise of control
sex identity/de-identify
ill/veil
a job for medicine
ANA�CORP�]�A Videotapes: Interviews to be recorded in hospital during
treatment, texts read to the camera, putting words in their mouths,
hyperalimentation monologues:
Text Sampler
LIFE HISTORIES OF THE REVOLUTION, LSM Press
THE REVENGER'S TRAGEDY, Tou�ner
NEO COLONIALISM, Kwame Nkruma
HOLGER MEINS, THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES, Red Army Fraction
KEEP FIT TO EAT RIGHT, Adelle Suicide
THE ORIGIN OF THE FAMILY, PRIVATE PROPERTY,
AND THE STATE, F. Engels
PARIS MATCH 2 June, 1978 HORREUR A KOLWESI
APPLIED PHARMACOLOGY REVIEWS (in-house medical publications)
Adis Press
POEMS OF AGHOSTINO NETO
;;:;-:c-9_�{'f
The Hunger Disea
se
--
=
.::Hre-GOLDEN-GAB-£
The Enigma of Anorexia Nervosa
Hilde Bruc h,
M.D.
psychotherapist shop fo�nan of hospital
fa�tory prison
research departments fo!' the de'.rel opnent of new methods of ""n"eo'
136
COERCIVE STRENGTH OF HUNGER STRIKES
Holget Meins
Rosa Meins
be "in." All of a sudden everyone in school was wearing a nylon jacket around
1960. Then the FDJ' did something about these parkas, these caps that we had
bought. They had security groups, and the FDl groups stood in front of the
school and took away our nylon jackets. They argued that the jackets were
stained with the blood of the Vietnamese-which was certainly possible. Well,
this is where a whole process is ignited-a real problem: one starts to become
Menstrual rhythm prison
control over bleeding
Brasch: Right from the beginning it was. To be honest I was rarely with my
parents. My earliest years-up until I was four-were spent with a family of
Social Democrats, who were workers and lived near the East train station.
lowering temperature
coma/orgasm
forms. especially the kind of uniforms you have in the People's Army. Of course
you end up with a frustrating situation-and it's the same in jail or parochial
schools where there are young boys without any girls. something especially im
portant when you're between 1 1 and 15. Regarding homoerotic relations: that's
possible, but I didn't see much of it. You're usually so pooped that you don't
much worry about your sexuality, outside of the usual masturbation scene. Our
teachers were mixed; about 70 percent I'd say were officers and the other 30
percent civilians. biology or chemistry teachers-. The pressure to perform was
pretty much the same one you find in similar schools. The year was divided into:
September, which was the beginning of the school and training year, to January;
then the annual winter camp in February, where we went into the mountains,
into barracks in an isolated area, where we learned to ski and to shoot on
skis and things like that. And during the same time we still had classes. Then we
went back for more instruction and military training. In June we had the 50called summer camp on the Baltic Sea where we went on maneuvers with tanks
and other things like that. And during that time there was no schooL After
weight loss is measurable progress
consuming and excreting is work
NGC: Could you tell us more about the circumstances which caused this? For
instance, these jackets. One doesn't become reactionary or progressive all of a
sudden because of jackets. There are issues where things come to a head.
POLITICS OF THE TREATMENT
THE FEMALE BODY IS NOT BEAUTIFUL
�u for ROSA YEMEN
1
egg scrambled with sh.1l
sodium perborate
sfenlb:e the mouth
hobltuelos colorades,
the red Intestines
200 omotryptUine
medical attention
8 hour
Y
,
. ..:;,
+ stomoch pump
vomit up the
-
day
1 dozen eggs broken
my eggs
lilE C�AR�
-
POtJTICAL
BE FUu:lu.ED.
attending coma
Internal bleeding
Oe ICI mastlcCltlon
MENU BY ROSA YEMEN.
Prehension buccClle;
Atfouchement-gustatlf-Langue
Mecanisme de 10 macholre
(temps determine selon
I'aliment)
Crachot.,ejedlon
Geugarlsme bref.
1 gorge. de gordons 91n+
mouure de citron vert.
(relet bref)
f - �'"
Bazooka Joe Story
Joe is trapped in the flavor, extracted in the mouth
(JOE HAS NO MOUTH) The body is perfumed/
connected. his empty body ejected/spat out. Nothing
is swallowed, the organs are excluded from this rela
tionship, a secret total consumption/excretion, to be
repeated as often as desired.
1 deml louche de toboule
(r.'et br")
1 olive noire ave<: noyau
Sake en quantite
(,ele<:t long)
1 cullleree a cafe de medleres
fecales de poinon
(rejet Indetermine)
1 blscotte
(relet instantClne)
Pendl + blanc d'aeuf
BClceiava + Eau
(relet brut)
Ice + Chewlng"gum
(lndetermlne)
Type Cerebro-splnal
de guerre froide 45% S%c@#Y.
LA MASTICATION en relation
dlrecte avec Ie bCllllemenf
(dons les deux sens)
Le lommell,
sons 10 mosturbCltlon.
CHOQS( FII(IM 12 SIMuvrtD
G(MS. I '0« (ACtl MCNlH
IN[)ICAH MONTH Of l"Iro;.
...· CO�!'S.
5£"'0 275 I-.lOO
F�r b0n �'"9 red; 5udo"l'erihc ::ni'l€'( Ihren 'lur Air ('I(y'ce ,we, "up-'r:u "I'; 1'.1'
A\-'\wCi,1 O:J\ "�,,e;ls;F' flJqw�J(;; CE'r -W€"f� JncJ do, groOte LR5holh .0111\( (-" s d
U8H r-',r'�, nod, S'.JcicrrE"',I,{) zv r'''_''''r�'' ,- er I�t von Ho'pbcrg DU5>�t(jo1_ ''"..'h,
)tc,i:CCHt ,y"C fk'111C' otv"eh. -, ;)(!"ocw' c', ube' r'onM",,;
- t'!1d d'A�',( P,f '-'ocr. gE'ru,Jer W1r(j. hm Ar Frarv:e c" enrge flug-I(10 ih::'! .J-)(I"
�
c'''0 0bhl'rlE'n.
'If:\trf'''C:n?A
.J
. 'Pt£\'' ' d-e d'.0 F:U95(!E'
(]I;,", ;T" � ,',
S'P. I,'
'" u
1,,,1"'1', lATA r-,'2,�f'DU.'O
.
.
l" II" ',,, : (I" ,;],:tc-cl<,'"
VLlZ I K E
1
,//
-"
,
"'T//
I
I tJ c:..
Andre Cadere
Boy with Stick
Sylvar. lOTRINGER: How would
yail define your work?
Andre CADERE: It', on indepen
dent work.
l:
How does It differ from
ony other Independent work?
C:
It differs in that It does not
depend exclusively on the exist·
Ing structur•• of ari.
l:
Whot dructure.d'
Gallerie, and museums, I
C;
don't mean to soy that It dispens
e. with them, but It can function
elh.rwl.e. It's this margin thai
Interests me,
L:
Whot gave you th" IrI.o of
operatIng within fhe morglmri'
C:
It', very difficult to say.
P.rhops It's because I (:omo from
Roumonia, (I country whh:h Is
outside the Western cultural sys.
tern, Q totally marginal country. I
come to France without money,
without relations. With respect
to the sodal order, I was nothing
at all. I hod no means of support.
The sale possibility thot was left
for me was to do my work all
alone, Independently of th.
existing social system. But I don't
want to play the Id.alist. The
goal 15 to pen.trate the predoml.
nant system.
Andre Cadere, a Romanian art.
ist, moved to Paris in 1'167. This
interview took place In April,
1978 in New York where he eame
to do his work, He died In Paris
shortly after, He wos 42,
Ulrike Meinhof
Armed
Anti-Imperialist
Struggle
West Germany: post-fascist state, consumers, culture,
metropole-chauvinism, mass manipulation through
media, psychologic warfare, Social Democrats. The
GUERILLA is a politico�militaristic organization
within illegality. It struggles aligned with internation
alism, the lnternationale of the liberation movements
waging war against imperialism in the third world and
in the metropoles, These liberation movements are the
avant-gardes of the world proletariat fighting in arms.
Reality can only be perceived in a materialistic
.....ay related to struggle-class struggle-war. Revolu
tionary action-no matter how it is brought about
will always be understood by the masses. Words are
senseless, outrage is no weapon, it takes action.
The Guerilla has no real viewpoint, no basis from
which to operate. Everything is constantly in motion,
so is the struggle. Struggle comes out of motion, mov·
ing on and is moving on. AI! that matters is the aim.
The guerilla perceives class struggle as the basic prin
ciple of history and class struggle as reality, in -whicn
proletarian politics will be realized.
Man and woman in the guerilla are the new people
for a new society, of which the guerilla is the "breed
ing cell" because of its identity of power, subjectivity,
constant process of learning, action (as opposed to
theory) , So guerilla means collective process of learn
ing with the aim to "collectivize" the individual, so
that he wi!! keep up coHective learning. Politics and
strategy are within each individual of the guerilla,
(Speech of Ulrike MeinhoJ on Sepf. l.J, 1'174, In
Moabit Prison, West Berlin, on fhe escape ofAndreas
Baader from prison,)
Armed Anti�lmperialist Struggle and the Defensive
position of the Counterrevolution in its Psychologic
Warfare Against the People
AntHmperialist Struggle
Anti.imperialist struggle, if not meant to be mere
ly a phrase. aims at destroying the imperialist system
of powers-politically.
economically and
in
.militaristic terms; the cultural institutions through
which imperialism provides homogenity of the ruling
elites and the communications systems for its
ideological predomination.
Military destruction of imperialism means
on the international level: destroy military alli
ances of U.S. imperialism around the world; in
Germany: destroy Nato and Bundeswehr; on the na·
tfonal level: destroy the armed formations of the state
apparatus, embodying the monopoly of violent power,
of the ruling class, its power within the state; in
Germany: police bundesgrenzschutz. secret service;
economically means destroy the power structure
of multinational companies;
politically means destroy state and non-state
bureaucracies, organizations and power structures
parties. unions, media-which rule the people.
Proletarian In temationalism
Anti-imperialist struggle here is not and cannot be
a national liberation struggle-its historic perspective
is not socialism in one country. Transnational organi·
z.ations of capital, world-gripping military alliances of
U.S. imperialism, cooperation of police and secret
services, international organizations of ruling elites
within the power range of U.S. imperialism-are
matched on our side, the side of the proletariat, of
revolutionary class struggles, of the liberation $trug
gles of third world peoples, of urban guerilla in the
metropoles
of
imperialism:
by
proletarian
internationalism.
Since the Paris Commune. it has been obvious
that the attempt of one people in an imperialist state to
liberate itself on a national level will call for revenge,
armed powers, the mortal hatred of the bourgeoisie of
all other imperialist states.
"One people suppressing others cannot e manci
pate i tself, " Marx said. The urban guerilla, RAF (Red
Army Fraction) here, Drigate Rosse in Italy, United
Peoples Liberation in the U.S. receive their military
significance from the fact that they can, aligned with
the liberation struggles of the third world peoples. out
of solidary struggle, attack imperialism from the back
here, from where it exports its troops, its weapons, its
training personnel. its technology, its communications
systems, its cultural fascism for the suppression and
�:
What does your work con.
slst of?
c:
" consists 0' these round
wooden rods that you see. They
conform to .Q precise definition
and are strurlured In a specific
way. It's a Vt�ry short wooden
dowel composed 0' segments
which ore assembled once they
are pointed different colors. The
colors succeed one onother oc
cording to a mathematical sys·
tern of permutotlons, within
which I Introduce an error each
time. There Is a dialectical rap'
port
between
mathema.kal
order and error.
Onc:e the boton Is c:omplef.
l:
ed, Is your work done?
C:
There must firs. 01 all be
the reality of work. I sell this
work; I make my living from It.
Therefore, with respect to the
reality of art, I hav. no ext.rlor
point of view. I am completely In
side of It. I move throughout the
circuit.
l:
You do, however, have a
parilcular mode 01 operatIon.
Rother than dependIng on 'he
gallery cfrc:ult for exposure and
safe of your work, '1011 u'tllite the
very mobIlity 0' what you do-a
doff, a pilgrim's doH-In order
fo establish your own network.
c:
That's true. I can go to the
Museum of Modem Art or to Cas·
telli's and present my work with·
VI anyone InvIting me.
a If were an orthodox
,ork, soy a conV05, could It dill
tunctlon In the 50me way?
C:
No, because there Is an
Indissoluble dialectical bond be.
tween the wall and the canvas.
The canvas has a recto and a ver'
so, It Is made for the wall and It
depends on It.
l:
Is the staH or the baton the
only form you C:On Imagine for
mobile art, for nomod/c art?
c:
It Is nomadic, but of
course It can enter the power ap'
paratus without being Invited,
that is to say, without being a
part of It.
l:
Then you use the balon to
pul a monkeywrench In the
works.
C:
Yes, that's It.
L:
Your baton Is at once an
obJect and on aef.
Exactly.
C;
142
A symbolIc ocr• • • •
Obviously. It ,. not becouse I go to Cast.III's that I am
exhibited th.,.. Nothing can
revent me from being concret.,
y. materially Inside the place.
He can throw me out, and H', in
teresting If h. doe.. This hos
happened .I.owho,., and I n
other circumstance.. When tho
Institution defend. Itself. It be·
comes, In no uncertain term.,
brutal and ogsresslve.
l:
c:
r.
L:
'$ 'f only fh. InsflhJflon
which reads IIIce thIs?
c:
Th.r. are the artl.ts.
l:
c:
The artIsts?
Yeah.
l:
Is the Institution also the
artists?
c:
Yeah. You '••, one 01.
ways speak. of galleries and mu•
•eums, but the artists, at leasf
those who are caught up In It or.
much more extreme than the
gallerie. them.elves.
l:
How rio you upla/n that?
Jealousy and competition.
c:
for the most part.
l:
Th. lact thaf you can
short·clrcult th. traditional chan·
n.Is by showing up In the best
known galleries?
Yes.
c:
l:
In fact, this short-elrcult
permits you fo benefll equally
from al/ fh. prestige of the no,..
mal elrcull.
C:
Altogether, and I've noth·
Ing against that. When I began
my work eight years ago, every
one told me, "Fine, you'll end up
with a gallery where you can
hong your baton on the wall;
you'll end up cooling It lust like
everyone else." It was consld·
ered on opportunist's activity.
Now. I've been exhibited quite a
bit In Europe, thank God, and In
plenty of Important places. Mu
seums have bought my work. But
regordless of all that, I continue
to hong out with my stick. And
this Is where It really becomes
Intere,tlng. I've estobli,hed my
little artistic career like anyone
else, but parallel to thot, I can'
tinua my work, I makathe scene,
completely alone, outside of ev
erything, although the system
can open certain doors for me.
exploitation of third world peoples. This is the
strategic destiny of the urban guerilla: in the backlands
of imperialism, to bring forth the guerilla, the armed
anti·imperialist struggle, the people's war, during a
long process-because world revolution is surely not a
matter of a few days, weeks, months, not a matter of
just a few people's uprisings, no shorHerm process
not taking over the state apparatus-as revisionis;
parties and groups imagine or rather claim, since they
really don't imagine anything.
About the Term "National State "
In the metropoles the term "national state" is a
fiction, no longer having any basis within the reality of
the ruling classes, its politics and power structure,
which have no equivalent even in language border
lines, since millions of labor emigrants can be found in
the rich states of West Europe. Rather through inter
nationalization of capital, through the news media,
through reciprocal dependencies of economic develop.
ment, through enlargement of the EUropean com·
munity, through crisis, an internationalism of the
proletariat in Europe eminates even on the subjective
level-so that union apparatuses have been working
for years already at its suppression, control,
institutionalization.
The fiction of a national state, which the revision
ist groups with their form of organizing cling to, is
matched by their legalistic fetishism, their pacifism,
their mass opportunism. We hold against them no! the
fact that members of these groups come from the petit
bourgeoisie, but rather that in their politics and organ
izational structure they reproduce the ideology of the
petit bourgeoisie to which internationalism of the
proletariat has always been foreign, and which has
and this cannot be different because of its class posi
tion and its conditions of reproduction-always
organized itself comp!ementarily to the national bour
geoisie, to the ruling class in the state.
Arguing that the masses are not yet ready reminds
the U . S . , RAF and captured revolutionaries in
isolation, in special prison sections, in artificial brain
wash collectives, in prison and in illegality, only of the
arguments of the colonial pigs in Africa and Asia for
over 70 years: black people, illiterates, slaves, the
colonized, tortured, suppressed, starving, the peoples
suffering under colonialism, imperialism were not yet
ready to take their bureaucracy, industrialization,
their school system, their future as human beings inw
their own hands. This is the argument of folks who are
worried about their own positions of power, aiming at
ruling a people, not at emancipation and liberation
struggle.
143
ID�
US,?
Dmetblng
eem ,
cmcA6�pi;�'
CRIME-STOP
IN OPERATIDN
CALL P05-1313
l:
What you do Is sneaky be·
couse If Is of once o/toge'her
shrewd and
yet comp'etely
naIve.
e:
Yes, It Is rother twisted.
II
And yef It's very dlNtct.
You do something. you produce
somethIng visible. Only you use
It dlHerfmtly. You're a sorl 01
squatter In the arl world.
c:
rm a squatter in the art
world. and what's more, on.
who would have his little studio
downtown like anyone .ls••
/
l:
Hove ou consIdered moll"
Ing Into an living In a gallery,
being there every clay with your
work? It you squCJttecl long
enoughJ you might provoke
some real trouble. whereas II
you only pou through. ',' .
C:
The Urban Guerilla
Our action of May 14, 1970 (freeing Andreas
Baader from prison). is and will remain the exemplary
action of the urban guerilla. It docs/did combine all
elements of the strategy oJ armed anti-imperialist
struggle: it was the liberation of a prisoner from the
grip of the state apparatus. It was a guerilla action, the
action of a group, which turned into a military
political cell because of the dedsion to undertake the
action. It was the liberation of a revolutionary, a
cadre, who was essential for the set up of the urban
guerilla-not just as every reVOlutionary is essential
within the revolution, but because even at that time he
incorporated all that was needed to make the guerilla,
military-political offensive against the imperialist state
possible: decisiveness, the will to act, the ability to
define oneself only and exclusively through the aims,
along with the keeping of the collective process o f
learning o f the group going, practising leadership from
the very beginning as collective leadership, passing on
to the collective the processes of the learning of every
individual.
The action was exemplary because anti-imperialist
struggle deals with liberation of prisoners, as such,
from the prison, which the system has always signified
for all exploited and suppressed groups of the people
and without historic perspective other than death,
terror, fascism and barbarianism; from the imprison
ment of total alienation and self-alienation, from
pOlitical and existential martial law, in which the
people are forced to live within the grip of imperialism,
consumer culture, media, the controlling apparatuses
of the ruling class, dependent on the market and the
state apparatus,
It's one of the possibilities
thot I hove not yet mode use of,
but 1 don't see why I shouldn't do
It, I'll walt for the rlgh.t occasion,
a reolly Important exhibition,
then I'll move In for 0 month.
L:
Hove you ever gone to the
Museum 01 Modern Arl fo
exhibIt?
Ves, but at MOMA I hove
c:
to have a pocket·sb:ed piece, be
cause they won', let me In with
this big piece,
l:
Do you hove poeket-sJ:r.ed
pieces?
C:
Once, I made it known
that I wos going to exhibit in the
Menn Galle')' In Parll, which Is
an extremely well·o" place,
Whot's more, I had had cartans
of invitations sent from Yugo·
slavla. Vugoslavla's the home of
real bohemian bastards, these
folks from the East, ond they
dared to .show thel, baton at
Monn's, amidst the good French
bourge-olsle' When I arrived on
the night of the private viewing,
some woman threw heneif on
me and confiscated the baton. I
was ready for it and I had a
smaller one In my pocket. So I
sold, "O.K.. may I go In now?" I
entered, took out my little
pocket-piece ond placed It on the
nice corpet, on the 'loor. Every
one gathered around!
L:
Do you hove greof biS
pieces os well?
I left a huge work, 0 really
big piece, in a group show where
I obviously hod not been Invited.
C:
144
It got dlU.rent reactions. One
time. the organizer took it all in
stride and asked me to leove my
work with him. Another time, I
found my work in a closet. That
was fine with me-I 'e. no rea
Ion why I shouldn't exhibit my
work In Q closet. I was happy,
and the were lust as happy to
hove ri themselves of this an
noying asshole. Great. But walt!
I sent out Q flyerfelling everyone
that one of Codere's works was
exhibited .ln the closet at the
Place Vendome. And plenty of
people come to rummage
through the closet, They all went
nutsl who"s more, the New York
art <:rltlcs showed up. In lad, the
thing was confiscated from me,
ond I never sow it again.
d
l:
Have you ever hoel any
contact with polltlcol orgcmlzo
tlons?
C:
No, none. I've been oe·
cus.d of being a Marxist. I com
pletely deny thot charge, It's
true, I've never written anything
thot wauld tie me to Morx. At
most, and lust in passing, I once
quoted Ploto.
Thol's rother Incrim/na"nS'
(Ioughlng): I'll hove to
Ct
send you the text.
l:
l:
In '" sense, If you carried
out an explIcit attaek on Inst/,u
flans, you would automol/cally
be assocloted with a cerialn ele·
ment that challenges 'he artistic
system.
Exactly.
C:
l:
What must be 0 bit per
plexing fa peop'e 's that you out·
line what could be a systematic
challenge, and then you leave
oH without gtvlng It a direction.
Don" you think thol's rather
absurd?
C:
Yes, It's absurd enough.
Precisely, there is no systematic
challenge in It. I think that's an
Interesting point.
Does It seem to you a pos/·
tlve point?
C:
Pasltive, negative, I don't
knaw.
L:
L:
Your wark Is marginal,
and yet at the center.
Well put.
C:
l:
What might limit your
work, ultimately, Is that however
The guerilla, not only here-this was not different
in Brazil, in Uruguay, in Cuba and with Che in Bolivia
-always emanates from nothing; the first phase of its
set-up is the most difficult; insofar as coming from the
bourgeois class, prostituted of imperialism, and the
proletarian class which the latter colonized offers
nothing that could be useful in this struggle. There is a
group of comrades, having decided to take up action,
to leave the level of lethargy, verbal radicalism, of
strategic discussions, which become more and more
nonsubstantiai, to fight. But everything is still miss
ing-not just all means; it only becomes evident at this
point what kind of a person olle is. The metropole
individual is discovered, coming from the process of
decay, the mortal, false, alienated surroundings"of
living in the system-factory, office desk, school, uni
versity, revisionist groups, apprenticeship and short
term jobs. The consequences of the separation
between professional and private life show up, those
of division o'f labor among intellectual and physical, of
being rendered incompetent within hierarchicaHy
organized processes of labor, of the psychic
deformation caused by the consumer society, of the
metropoJe society having moved into decay and
stagnation.
B ut that is us, that is where we come from: bred
by the processes of elimination and destruction in the
metropoie society, by the war of all against all, the
competition between each and everybody else, the sys
tem ruled by fear and pressure for productivity, the
�ame of one at the expense of somebody else, the
,eparation of the people into men and women, young
Elnd old, healthy and sick, foreigf!ers and natives and
the fight fOr reputation. And that is where we come
from: frotP the isolation of the suburban home, the
desolate concrete public housing. the cell-prisons,
asylums and special prison sections. From brain-wash
through the media. consumerism. physical punish
ment, the ideology of non-violence; from depression,
sickness. declassification. insult and humiliation of the
individual. of all exploited people under imperialism.
Until We perceive the misery of each of us as consti
tuting the necessity of liberation from imperialism. the
necessity of anti-imperialist struggle and understand
there is nothing to lose by destroying this system. but
everything to win in the armed struggle: the collective
liberation, life. humanity, identity; that the concern of
the people, of the masses. the assembly-line workers,
the bums, the prisoners, the apprentices, the poorest
masses here and of the liberation movements in the
third world is our concern. Our concern: armed, anti
imperialist struggle, the concern of the masses and vice
versa-even if this can and will prove to be real only
during a long-term development of the military
political offensive of the guerilla, the unleashing of the
people's war.
This is the difference between truly revolutionary
and only presumably revolutionary, although in
reality, opportunistic politics: our concept is based on
the objective situation, the objective conditions, on the
real situation of the proletariat. the masses in the
metropoles-which includes that the people, no matter
of what material statuli, are within the grip and under
the control of the system from all sides, the oppor
tunistic viewpoint is based on the alienated conscious
ness of the proletariat-we rely on the fact of
alienation, which constitutes the necessity for
liberation. "There is no reason, " Lenin wrote in 1916
in opposition to the renegade pig Kautsky, "to assu me
seriously, that the majority of proletarians coufd be
united in organizations. Secondly-this being the main
point-the question is not so much about the number
oj members ofan organiZation but the actual, objec
tive significance of the politics,' does it represent the'
polities o/ the masses, does it serve the masses, i.e. the
liberation of the masses from capitalism, or does it
represent the interests of the minority, the accord with
capitalism ? We cannot and nobody can figure out
exactly which section of the proletariat follows and
will follo w the social chauvinists and opportunists.
Only the struggle will prove that, the sociali<;t revo
lution will finally decide that, but it is our obligation,
If we want to remain socialists. to go deeper to the
lowest masses, to the rear masses: this constitutes the
full significance oj the struggle against opportunism
and the entire contents of this struggle. "
bIzarre your InsertIon Into Drlls
tIc structures, what you do re
maIns elSenllally symbolic. Ws a
work that deals wHh the very
meanIng of art, the mOftne, In
which art Is presented and repre
,ented. You don't question artlt
ric authorIty Hself, you symboll
caffy show what It Involves. Now
what Is symbolic Is Immedlcrfe.ty
recovered. SInce such an ad be
longs In on Insf/Mlona' conf....t.
There's the prob'em.
e:
Perhaps that's why I need
to work wHh someone like David
Ebony, who 1$ outside of the cir
cuit. It allows me to broaden my
foundation.
How s07
The situation with David
Ebony Is very Intere,tlng. Here i.
someone who call, himself a gal.
lery when there Is non�. Ho pays
no talCes, he has no .ocial or cor
porote elClstence, nothing.
l:
�
There', (II ce r#oln derisive
side to whot you do that calls to
mind, besides Kafko, the punk
rock set and what they're Into.
C:
The British punks, yes. I
like them. Thoy kiss off cmd drink
their beer. They don't give a
damn. They live on the outside.
l:
L:
With no more thought for
authority. . .
C:
Not even the anarchy of
authority, not even dropping
bombs. It', reoUy naive.
146
L:
CI
It'. ,really disgusting_
"h.,. are f'Otall, Indifferent.
L:
WhIch Is nof exadly your
own pft/tude. Th.,.e's no vIolence
In what you do. no provocation.
Your provocation adheres elosely
th. mo"ement of the system. In
lad. you',.. eve" mo,.. system
atle fhan th. 'yste"" which Is
why you 91"e th. Impreu/on fhat
you or. I_u so. You do too
much. ancl of ,h. same time not
&"ollgh.
C;
V.s, but weillI It', " maf·
I., of p"nonol evolution. The
petty events thot I've relaled to
you happened lome years ogo. I
plclIl to do th.$. mar. violent
acts less and less. " m much more
'nter.slod In on odlvitf' thot's
mar. diffuse, mar. "eutrol,
more drab, whereos 't's the
spectacular sid. of the punks
that Inter.sts me.
l:
And If you remove th.
spedQd. sIde, whot's left?
C:
Perhaps a permonent ac
tivity. At leost, I would hope so.
l:
If you were fa consld.r
positively your r.latlon fo a cer·
fain conception of orl, do you
think that you Introduce a dis
find notran or aHifude toward
this system 'n which one nolls a
work of arl to th. wall?
C:
I think thot this is some·
thing thot has never been done
in this way throughout the his·
tory of painting, this sort of dia
lectlcol relationship between a
work and the world, betw_n a
work onr! Its space. It Is a dlff.,·
ent mechanism, and for that rea·
son It permits a diff.rent activity.
l:
Perhaps you are oHerlng
cerlain woys of living arl, as op_
posed to lIving oH arl. A new arl
of /lvlng. Obviously, your boton
could be attached to a woll lor·
ever, but If Is only 'ru'y meonlng.
ful as a parl of your activity.
Ther. Is an undeniable aspect 01
perlormance-or 15 'f perlorma.
tlve?-In what you do.
C:
Yes, that's Iru•. But any
one who owns one of my batons
can hang oul with It. 1 have noth
ing at all against that. And the,e
are p&Ople who do III There's a
California artist who's been do·
ing It for six yeors. W. met in
Germony in 1972, and It changed
his life.
The Guerilla is the Group
The function of leadership in the guerilla, the
function of Andreas in the RAF is: orientation�not
just to distinguish in every situation the main points
from the minor ones but also in every situation to stick
to the entire political context in all aspects, never to
lose sight, among details, technical and logistic, single
problems, of the aim, the revolution, on the level of
policies of aIHances. never to forget the class question,
on the tactical level, the strategic questions; this
means: never to succumb to opportunism. It is "the
art of combining dialectically moral rigidity with
smoothness of action, the art of applying the law of
development to the leadership of revolution, which
(urns progressive changes into qualitative steps, "
Duan said. It is also an art "not to withdraw with
fright from the immenseness of one's own purposes,"
but to pursue them rigidly and unwaveringly; the de
cisiveness to learn from mistakes. to learn first and
foremost. Every revolutionary organization, every
guerilla organization knows thaL The principle of
practice demands the development of such abilities
every organization, which bases its concept upon dia
lectic materialism. which has the aim of the victory in
the people's struggle rather than the set�up of a party
bureaucracy, partnership within power of imperialism.
We do not talk about democratic centralism, since
urban guerillas, in the metropole federal republic can�
not have a centralistic apparatus. It is not a party but a
political�militaristic organization, developing its func�
Hons of leadership collectively from every single unit,
group-with the tendency to dissolve them within the
groups, within collective learning. The aim is always
the independent, tactical orientation of the fighter, the
guerilla, the cadre. The collectivization is a political
process, noticeable everywhere, in interaction and
communication, in learning from one another in all
work and training. Authoritarian structures of leader
ship lack materia! basis in the guerilla, also because the
true, i,e, voluntary development of the productive
energy of every individual contributes to the effective�
ness of the revolutionary guerilla: to intervene in a
revolutionary way with weak energies, to unleash the
people's war.
148
L:
Isn"
So h. displays a work that
liY." hI,?
c:
Exodly. It's rough. It's extremely dIfficult.
l:
This orilst, then, Is not
only alienated hom edstlng
structures, but olso from hI' own
arl, which Is nof hJs ownl
,H. Is equally alienated
c:
from hil own personality. He
does away with himself. It's rath
er on extravagant phenomenon.
l;
This 1$ why' spoke 01 a pll.
grim's doH. It InspIre, one to
hang out, to trovel. to roam. to
wander about thft margins.
c:
Thl, artist Is not olone.
Ther. are others.
l:
Have they met with the
50me sori of readlons that you
yourself hove encounter.d?
C:
More so yet, with ltven
more hostility. People say to
them, "Oh, so you're one of Co
d.r.'s fans l A little Codere''' 't',
much worse for them. I know
one. f.llow who suff.red a nerv_
ous breakdawn. I told him, "If
you want to buy 1t, thot's your
business. But I don't advise )'Qu
to c:arry it. Watc:h out, It's don·
gerous." Just the same, he cor·
rled h around for a whole year.
He loves art. He loves to hong
out In thert world, and he really
believed In h. He ended up hav·
Ing a fit. As for the California art
ist, he's really off the wall !
Don't some people thInk
you',.. really off the wall?
C:
They can, yes, but IIlti·
mately they soy • • .
l:
L:
• , • that alter all, you're
not really dangeroll", After a
while, however blJ:arre or devl·
ant, you ore rec:ognlzed as an
artist who '5 Involved In a work
that has'lts worth.
C:
It's
an
Inesc:apable
process.
L:
Hove you ever been In
touc:h with ari/sllc: movemenb
opposed to, the gallery "ystem?
No.
C:
L:
It doesn't Infere,,' you?
No, not in the least,
C:
What's more, It doesn't exbt.
We're talking about artists who
create works that must be dis
ployed. So they say, "O.K" we11
set up a cooperative gallery-
Psychological Warfare
The principle of psychological warfare, in order
to instigate the masses against the guerilla, to isolate
the guerilla from the people, is to mystify the material,
real aims of revolution, which matter�liberation from
the rule o f imperialism, from occupied territories,
from colonialism and neo-colonialism, from dictator
ship of the bourgeoisie, from military dictatorship,
exploitation, fascism and imperialism and to distort
through personification psycho!ogization, to make the
perceivable nonperceivable, the rational seemingly ir
rational, the humanity of revolutionaries seem inhu
man. The technique is: instigation, lies, dirt, racism,
manipulation. mobilization of the hidden fears of the
people, of the reflexes of existential fears and super
stition in regard to uncomprehended authorities, be
cause of non-perceivable power structures, all of
which have been burnt into the flesh through decades
and centuries of colonialism and exploitative control.
In the attempt of the pigs to destroy through psy
chological warfare, through personification and psy
chologization the thing: revolutionary politics, armed
anti· imperialist struggle in the metro pole federal
republic and their implications on the consciousness of
the peopie, they make us seem to be what they are, the
structure of the RAF as that one by which they
rule-the way their power apparatuses are set-up and
function: being Ku-Klux-Klan, Mafia, CIA and the
way the character masks of imperialism and their
puppets force through their interests: by blackmail,
bribery, competition, protectionism, brutality and the
path across dead bodies.
In their psychological warfare against us, the pigs
count on the merging - of pressure for productivity and
the fright, which the system burnt into the flesh of
ever one, who is forced to sell his working energy just
to be able to exist. They count on the instigated syn
dromes: anti-communism, anti-semitism, sexual re
pression, religion, authoritarian school systems, rac
ism, brain-washing through consumer culture and
imperialist medias, reeducation and " wirtschafts
wunder", having been directed against the people for
y
decades, centuries.
The shocking thing about the gueri!la in its first
phase was the shocking thing about our first action, by
having people act without leUing themselves be de
termined by the pressure of the system, without seeing
themselves with the eyes of the media, without fear.
Folks acting based on true experience, their own and
that of the people. For the guerilla relies on those
facts, which the people suffer from every day; exploi
tation, media terror, insecurity of living conditions in
spite of most refined technology and greatest wealth in
this country-psychic i!lnes.�es, suicides, child molest
ing, distress of schools, housing misery. The shocking
149
thing about our action for the imperialist state was
that the RAF has been perceived in the consciousness
of the people to be what it is: practice, the thing, which
results logically and dialectically from the existing con·
ditions-action, which as expression of the real con·
ditions, as expression of the only realistic possibility to
change them, overthrow them, renders back dignity to
the people, and meaning to the struggles, revolutions,
uprisings, defeats and revolts of the past-once again
enables the people to have a consciousness of its
history. Because all history is history of class struggle,
because people, having lost sense of the dimensions of
revolutionary class struggle, are forced to live in a state
of no history, deprived of its'self·consciousness, i.e. its
dignity.
In reference to the guerilla, everybody can define
for himself, where he stands-is able after all to see,
where he is standing, his position in the class society,
within imperialism, define it for himself. For many
think they are standing on the side of the peole-but as
soon as the people start to fight, they run off.
denounce. step on the brakes, move to the side of the
police. This is the problem which Marx cited endless
times, that a person is not what he claims but what his
real functions, his role in the class society, defines him
as, this is what he, unless acting consciously against
\ .,. ;'1 � I "' I�" " I
'
there's no other solutlon."- A co.
operotlve gollery? Thanks, I can
do without it. I do my work all by
myself. It's the sam. old en·
dos.d space. W. not John or
Mary Doe who get the bucks. but
hm ortlsts. What the h.1I should I
cor. about their boxes ond their
naked 901l.rl.sl
But you're no 'ess glued fa
the artlsHc world than they are,
because u'tlmate'y, what you do
depends on a very restricted dr·
cult. Doesn', th. fact that you In·
habit the artistic ghetlos confirm
Its ulstenee? Wouldn', It be
prelerob'e to shuHle thlll corns_
and not only Inside th. Insfltv.
tlon; to challenge the dlsfrlbu·
tlon among the elite, which Is to
say the art scene, and fhe war/d
of large?
C:
I'm In the street olt day
long. But not lu.t In the str_t.
L:
l:
In the stree' people see
you as someone who's a bit ex_
frovaganf. but New York 's full of
.cunlrlcs. How are peop/III to
understand that whot fhev" e
, ."
, I
3J\.£\I )1 =I� -I�I:IN� le)1
:Ne jl_l\NI ) (;()T
lJNI {.
lJT
150
n.'"9 Is em orll,,'t: dateme,t,?
c:
They don't have to under
dend that. I oddress the artistic
.talement .01ely and uniquely to
art', power .trueture. In the
.treet, It'. an altogether diU.r
ent thing.
Then Is If only artlsffc
L:
"ruehlr•• which conl.r ortlsfle
charoeterlstlcs on wha' you do?
C:
Yes.
l:
So you half. a n••d for thIs
authority or power. elfen fa
come down on It.
C:
I could give another defl·
nltion for "art", I can say. a
priori: "Art Is this baton which I
carry. Th.r.fore, In the subway.
in the galleries ond museums, In
the str••t. wherever, thl. I. what
art is all about. And I show It to
people. Some think It', very
beautiful, others remain com
pletely Indlff.rent. And so It
g08S. If, on the contrary. I give a
spedalixed definition for "ort",
a. certain Institutions do, then I
must ,how something within the
framework of the Institution.
l:
You ho"e been clau/f/ed
with the r;onr;eptual ortlsfs, Does
thb r;o"espond fa what you
feel?
I define myself precisely
C: ,
a, ho.,Jn9 nothing to do with the
conceptual mo\f&ment,
l:
Would you ha.,. b••n obI.
to do your thing without concep'
tua/ort?
c:
Wen, the,e Is a connec
tion, bUI nolhlng more. Concep
tual art Is an hl" orlc:al classlfico'
tlon.
L:
Th. Itinerary you r;ho... to
follow on W•., Broadway on
April 8, 1978, 'nclud.d not only
9allerles . • .
C:
We wonted to indude
boutiques, " ore" prestigioul
gollerlel, schmaltzy galleries.
what•.,.,. In this way, every
thing was reduced to the lome
level-which is business.
L:
'n se"'n9 up an equ/va.
lence between one gallery and
another, you're r.cogn/dng. ,ust
th. some, that th.re are tltH.r.
enees between them, and you
explolf the v.ry foct that these
dlHerenus exl.,.
C:
David Ebony and I have
disr;usted this qu.stlon In depth,
At first we figured we should re'
the system, Le. taking up arms and fighting, is being
lived a<; by the system, has been practically instru
mentalized to be for the aims of the system.
The pigs in their psychological warfare try to turn
upside down those facts which have been rightside up
in the guerilla action-being that the people does not
depend on the state but the state on the people, that
the people does not depend on stock corporations,
mUltinationals, their plants, but the capitalist pigs on
the people, that police was created not to protect the
people from criminals but rather to protect the exploi
tative system of imperialism from the people, the
people do not depend on the justice system but the
justice system on the people, we do not depend on the
presence of American troops and institutions here but
U.S. imperialism on us. Through personif(cation and
psychologization they project upon us what they are,
the cliches of capitalist anthropology, the reality of its
character masks, its judges, state, prosecutors, its
prison pigs, the fascists: the pig enjoYing its alienation,
living on torturing others, suppressing, using them, the
existence of which is based upon career, upward
mobility, stepping upon, living at the expense of
others, exploitation, hunger, misery,. misery o f some
billion people in the third world as well as here.
The ruling class hates us because in spite of a
hundred years of repression, fascism, anti�commu
nism, imperialist wars, the murder of nations, the
revolution is lifting up its head again. By psychological
warfare the bourgeoisie, the pig state has dumped
upon us, and especially Andreas-he is the incarnation
of the mob, the street-fighter enemy-all they hate and
fear about the people; they recognized in us what is
threatening them and will overthrow them: the de
cisiveness towards revolution, revolutionary force,
political-military action-their own helplessness, the
limitations of their means, once the people take to
arms and start fighting.
Not upon us but upon itself does the system re
flect in its slander against us, as all slander against
guerilla teaches about those who produce it, about
their pig belly, their aims, ambitions and fears. Even
the "self-appointed avant-garde" for example does
not make sense. To be avant-garde is a function which
you cannot appoint yourself to nor claim. It is a
function, which the people give to the guerilla out of
their own consciousness, within the process of
awakening, out 0 f rediscovery of their own role in
history, by discoveririg themselves within guerilla
action, recognizing the ln�ltself necessity of destroying
the system as a For-Itself necessity through guerilla
action that has already transformed it into a For-Itself
necessity. The notion "self-appointed avant-garde"
displays a kind of prestigious thinking, which belongs
to the ruling class, which opts for domination-it has
nothing to do with the function of possessioniessness
ler 10 the different galleries and
the various .tores by name. Then
W.1. decided not to give our own
action toa polemic and .,-rsonal
a dimenslan.
l:
Personal? Aren', we talk
'"g about structures a"d not
people?
C:
The name af a gallery Is
first of all the name of a person.
We ended up reducing our Itlner·
ary to a successian of street
addresses.
Then, on the one fKmd,
you equate what Is arttsllc with
what Is not, and on the .ofher
h(lnd, you level the Infern(ll hler·
(lrch/cal dlHerences wllhfn the
art world.
C:
Right. But there's another
thing. When I'm in New York, I
walk around with my work under
my arm every d(lY, But through
our Itinerary, David Ebony and I
lust wanted to highlight what for
us is a slmle dally activity.
There's
nothing
e,cceptionol
about It,
only at certain
moments• . . .
l:
It becomes oHIc/al.
l:
Not exactly. It becomes
C:
conscious.
L:
C:
It crysfalllns.
Yes.
L:
You sent on InvItatIon, a
gilded Invltallo" to boof, an·
nounclng your exhIbitIon In plac.
es you are not connected with,
like a gallery whIch doesn"
edsf. That's a cool parody of the
Ins"tullon.
C:
Strictly speaking, It's not
mtKJnt to be humorous.
L:
Old anyone come specifIcally fo See your work?
c:
Three, or perhaps five did,
I think. But what do I care obout
the way people reacted? It wa!;
enough to do It-with r<l(Ictions,
without reactions, any which
way.
One could say that you at
tempt something whfch Is c/ose
to what WIll/am Burroughs de
scribes. The virus he Invokes Is a
parasite whIch Invades a living
organism and turns Its whole
substance, It energy and Its de
sIres toward another end. Now
l:
152
you, yClu do lust th. oppodt••
You Introduc. a count.r-vlrus
Into on unhealthy structure,
whlth 1$ tit. structure of com·
m.rc., or hl.rorthy, or outhor
Ity. YClu f""d oH It, you loos.n Its
rip, simply .stabl"hlng a poral.
., rJrt:tllf.
C:
What you say Is lnt.r.st·
Ing. Neither Ebony nor I had it In
our heads to touch on the exist.
'n9 structures at Cast.III's. w.
produced our parallel circuit, and
it's true that It developed insid.
of their thing, but ot th. some
time, it remain.d totally inde
pendent of It. It fed off Its own
sourc.s, which are not neces
sarlly thos. of the existing
golled.s,
"
II
You dlverl th. Iydem of
the gall.rles' worth for your own
profit, but of the lame time, you
p.rvert lt, And ' m.an fhls Ilt.r
ally: you r.c09nl%. th. eJf1d.nc.
of th. law, but thIs Is In ord.r to
b.Her .dab/bh an arllflclal and
rival agre.menl, and to r.-orient
the flux of values In a literal dl·
rection- "I have exhibited at Sol·
omon'I"-whlch becomes, byth.
same folc.n, a parody, You reo
discover, through trlekery, the
original dlm.nslon of art, which
Is that of play. The way a child
plays, a perverse child's game:
Richard Lindner's mondrous little
boy pluggIng his little machine
Into the big one. It only prelends
to be a trilling gam.. On.
couldn" fud off the Institutional
valu.u any more Innocently,
C; ,
I'd say less. It Is a means
of f.eding off the Institution, but
I don't dolm to reveal anything. I
only dolm to Ihow lomething
which would not b. shown oth.r
wis•.
of the proletariat, with emancipation, with dialectic
materialism, with anti-imperialist struggle.
The Dialectics oj Revolution and Counterrevolution
These are the dialectics of the strategy of anti�
imperialist struggle: that through the defensiveness,
153
the reactions of the system, the escalation of counter�
revolution. the transformation of the political martial
law into the military martial law, the enemy betrays
himself, becomes visible-and thus by his own terror
makes the masses rise against him. lets contradictions
escalate and thus forces the revolutionary struggle.
Marighela: «The basic principle of revolutionary
strategy under the conditions of a permanent polWcal
crisis in city as well as countryside is to undertake such
a range of revolutionary actions that the enemy feels
compelled to change the political situation oj the state
into a military one. Then dissatisfaction will S,f!ize all
layers and the military will be the only one responsible
for all misconduct. " And A. p, Puyan. a Persian com
rade: "Through the pressure of the worsening. coun
terrevolutionary force against the resistance fighters.
all other controlled groups and classes will Inevitably
become even more suppressed. Thus the ruling class
intensifies the contradictions between itself and the
suppressed classes and by creating such an atmos
phere. which will come byforce ofthings. ifpushes the
political consciousness of the masses way ahead. ..
And Marx: «Revolutionary progress determines
its direction when it rouses a powerful. self-centered.
counterrevolution by engendering an adversary that
can only cause the insurgent party to evolve. in its
battle against the counterrevolutionaries. into a
.
veritable revolutionary party. .
When the pigs in 1972 with a personnel of 150,000
created total mobilization in their search against the
RAF, people's search via TV, intervention of the chan
cellor. centralization of all police forces with the
federal bureau-this meant that at this point all mate
rial and personnel forces of this state were in motion
because of a small number of revolutionaries: it be
came evident on a material level that the force
monopoly of the state is limited, its powers can be
exhausted. that imperialism is tactically speaking a
man-eating monster, but strategically a paper tiger. It
became evident on a material level that it is up to us
whether suppression continues and it is up to us as well
whether it will be smashed.
Translated by Sigrid Huth
Gilles Deleuze
Politics
As individuals and groups, we afC made up of lines, lines o f very different
sorts. The first kind of line (or rather, lines, since there are many lines of this
kind) that forms us is segmentary, but rigidly segmented: family-profession;
work-vacation; family-then school-then army-then factory-then retire
ment. After each change from one segment to another, we arc told, "You arc
no longer a child"; then at school. "Now yOll arc no longer at home"; then in
the army, "this is not a school here . . . " In short, all kinds of well defined
segments, corning from everywhere, which literally and figuratively carve us
up, bundles o f segmented lines. There are also segmented lines that are much
more supple, somehow molecular. It's not that they are more intimate or
personal, for they run through societies and groups as well as through
individuals. They trace out small modifications, cause detours, sketch
depressions or outbursts of enthusiasm; yet, they are nonetheless preCise, for
they direct many irreversible processes. Rather than segmented molar lines,
these are molecular flows with thresholds or quanta. A threshold is crossed but
this doesn 't necessarily coincide with a more visible segment of lines. Many
things occur along this second type of line, states of flux, micro-states of flux,
lacking the rhythm of our 'history'. That is why family problems,
readjustments, and recollections appear so painful, while in fact, our most
important changes are taking place elsewhere�another point of view, another
time, another individuation. A profession is a rigid segment, but what goes on
behind it! What connections, attractions and rejections inconsistent with the
segments, what secret follies, nevertheless linked to public power: a professor,
for example, or a judge, lawyer, accountant or cleaning woman? At the same
time, there is also a third kind of line, an even stranger one, as if something
were carrying us away through our segments but also across our thresholds,
towards an unknown destination, not forseeable, not preexisting. This line is
simple, abstract, and yet it is the most complicated, the most tortuous of them
all: it is the line of gravity and celerity, of remigration with the steepest
gradient. This line seems to spring up afterwards, detaching itself from the
other two, jf indeed it can accomplish this separation. For perhaps there are
people who do not have this line, who have only the'other two, or those who
have only one. From another perspective, however, this line has been present
from the beginning, although it is the opposite of destiny; it would not need to
detach itself from the other two; rather it would be the principal line, with the
others deriving from i1, In any case, these three lines are immanent,
interwoven one into the other. We have as many entangled lines in om lives as
in the palm of a hand. But we are complicated in different ways than is a hand.
The pursuits that we call by various names (schizo-analysis, micropolitics,
pragmatics, diagramatism, rhizomatics, cartography) have no other goa! than
the study of these lines in groups or individuals.
Fitzgerald explains in his admirable short piece The Crack-up how life
always proceeds at several rhythms, several speeds. Since Fitzgerald is a living
drama, defining life as a process of demolition, his text is black, though no less
exemplary, inspiring love with each sentence. He never displays as much
genius as when he speaks of his loss of genius. Thus, he says about himself,
there are first of all the large segments: rich-poor, young-old, success-failure,
health-illness, love-indifference, creativity-sterility, in connection with social
events (economic crisis, the stock market crash, the advances of cinema
replacing the novel, the development of fascism, all kinds of necessarily
heterogenious events, to which these segments respond and precipitate).
Fitzgerald refers to these events as breakages, each segment marking or being
able to mark such a break. This kind of segmented line concerns us on a
particular date in a particular place. Whether it goes up or down doesn't really
matter (a successful life built upon this model is no better simply because of
the model). The American Dream is just as much starting out as a street
sweeper and becoming a millionaire as the reverse; it involves the same
segments. Fitzgerald also says' that there are lines of cracking-up that don't
correspond with the lines of large segmentary breaks. In this case we'd say that
a plate has cracked, Most often, when things are going well, when everything's
going better on the other line, the crack shows up stealthily, imperceptibly on
this new line, causing a threshold of lesser resistance, or perhaps an increase of
a required threshold, We can no longer put up with things as we used to, even
157
as we did yesterday; the distribution of desire within us has been changed, our
conceptions of fast and slow have been modified, and a new kind of anguish,
but also a new kind of serenity, come to us. The fluxes subside: our health
improves, our wealth stabilizes. our talent manifests itself; that's when the
little crack develops, the fissure that will oblique the line. Or perhaps the
reverse: you make an effort to , improve things when suddenly everything
cracks apart on the other line. What an immense relief! Being no longer able to
put up with something could be a way of making progress, but it could also be
the development of paranoia, a fear that besets the aged, or it could be a
perfectly correct evaluation, for rcal or political reasons. We don't change or
grow older in the same way, from one line to another. The supple line is
therefore no more personal or intimate than the hard line. The microcracks are
also collective in the same way that macrobreaks are personal. Fitzgerald goes
on to speak of yet another line, a third line which he caUs rupture. It would
appear that nothing has changed, and yet everything has changed. Assuredly,
neither large segments, changes nor voyages affect this line, but neither do
hidden mutations or mobile and floating thresholds, even though they come
close. Instead, we would say that an 'absolute' threshold has been reached.
There's no longer any secret. We've become just like everyone else, or more
precisely, we have made a becoming of 'everyone'. We have become imper¥
ceptible, clandestine. We have embarked upon a very curious, stationar-y
journey.
The lines, the movements of remigration arc what appear first in a society in
a way. Far from being a remigration outside of the social realm, far from
being utopian or even ideological, these lines actualJy constitute the social
realm, tracing its inclinations and its borders, its entire state of flux. We would
qualify someone as a marxist if he were to say that a society contradicts itself,
that it can be defined by its contradictions, e�pecialiy class contradictions. We
would say instead that everything circulates in a society, that a society defines
itself by its lines of remigration, affecting masses of every sort (for once again,
'mass' is a molecular notion). A society, or any collective venture defines itself
first by its points or flux of deterritorialization. History's greatest geo�
graphical adventures are lines of remigration-the long marches ' by foot,
horse or boat: the Hebrews in the desert, Genseric Ie Vandale crossing the
Mediterranean, the nomads across the steppes, the Great March of the
Chinese-it is always along a line of remigration that we create, certainly not
because we imagine or dream, but on the contrary, because we are tracing out
the Real, and it is here that we construct a plan of consistence. RUn, but while
running, pick tip a weapon.
This primacy of the lines of remigration should be understood neither in a
chronological sense. nor in the sense of an eternal generality. Rather, its
significance points to the fact and the right of inopportunity: a time without
pulse, a hecceity, like a breeze that picks up at midnight, or at noon. For these
reterritorilizations occur simultaneously: monetary reterritorializations pass
along new circuits; rural reterritorializations implement new modes of
exploitation; urban reterritorializations pass according to new functions, etc.
III this way reterritorializations accumulate and give birth to a class deriving
particular benefits from it, capable of becoming homogeneous and recoding
aU the segments. At most, it would be neces.�ary to distinguish between all
mass movements with their respective coefficients and speeds, and class
stabilizations with their segments distributed throughout the totality of the
reterritoriaHzation. The same thing acts as mass and as class but upon two
different, intertwined lines with disparate contours. Now we can better
understand why I said that there are at least three different lines, although
sometimes only two, and even sometimes only one, all very entangled. Some
times there are actually three lines, because the lines of remigration or of
rupture combine all the movements of deterritorialization, precipitate towards
the quantum level, tear off accelerated particles that cross into each other's
territory and transport them to a plane of consistency or a mutant machine.
And then we have a second, molecular line, where deterritorializations are
only-relative, compensated by reterritorializations that impose multiple loops
and detours, equilibriums and stabilizations upon them. Finally there is the
f
\
1\
molar line, composed of welt defined segments, where reterritorializations
accumulate to form an organizational plane and pass into a reeoding machine.
Three lines: the nomad line, the migrant line and the sedentary line (the
migrant isn't anything like the nomad). Or we could have only two lines,
because the molecular one would merely appear in oscillation between two
extremes, sometimes overwhelmed by the conjugal flux of deterritorialization,
sometimes contributing to the accumulation of reterritorializations. The
migrant allies himself sometimes with the nomad and at other times with the
mercenary or sedentary people: the Ostrogoths and Wisigoths. Or perhaps
there is only a single line, the line of first remigration, the border or edge which
relativizes the second line, allowing itself to be stopped or cut into the third.
But even then, it can be conveniently presented as the line resulting from the
explosion of the other two. Nothing is more complicated than this line or these
lines: Melville refers to it when he talks about tying together the dingys with
their organized segmentarity, about Captain Ahab in his germinal and
molCi;ular animal state, and the white whale during his wild escape. Let us
return to the realm of signs we were talking about earlier: how the line of
remigration is eliminated in despotic regimes; how during the Hebronic reign,
now endowed with a negative sign, a positive but relative value was discovered
and dissected into successive events . . . These are only two possible
illustrations, there are so many others dealing with the essence of politics.
Political activity is an active experiment because we never know in advance
which' direction a line is going to take. Make the line break through, says the
accountant: but that's just it, the line can break through just about anywhere.
There are so many dangers; each line poses its own problems. The danger of
both rigid segmentarity and the line of 'breakage' shows up everywhere. For
not only do these lines concern our relationship with the State but also with
every power mechanism that !eaves its trace upon us, al! the binary machines
that dissect us, the abstract machines that encode us. These rigid segments
regulate our way of seeing, acting, feeling-our entire realm of signs. It's very
true that nationalist states oscHiate between two poles: the first, liberal, since
the State is nothing more than an apparatus directing its abstract machinery
and the second, totalitarian, since the State takes the abstract machinery upon
itself, thus tending to become confused with it. The segments which divide us
, I and which order our lives are in any case marked with a rigidity that reassures
us, but which also turns us into the most fearful, the most impitiable, the most
bitter of aU creatures. The danger is so widespread and so clear that we
.. /
are often forced to wonder why we need this segmentarity at all. Even if we
had the power to do away with it, could we do so without destroying
ourselves? Especially since this segmentarity defines the very conditions of our
life, induding OUI human organism and even our rational capacities. The
prudence which should be used to guide this line, the precautions needed to
'
soften it, to suspend it, to divert it, to undermine it, all point to a long process
.
which isn't carried out simply against the State and its powers, but also against
itself.
The second line poses just as many threats. It is not sufficient to have
.\
attained or traced a mOlecular line, to have been carried away on a supple line.
For here again, our perceptions, actions, passions and our whole system of
signs are involved. Although we may encounter on a supple Iin� the same
,
dangers endemic to the rigid
lines, they appear in miniature, disseminated or
.
)
A
f"T
.
J. .
t,' ..
159
perhaps molecularized: the little Oedipi of communal living have replaced the
family Oedipus; continually changing relationships of force replace power
mechanisms; cracks replace segregation. But , worse still, the supple lines
themselves reduce and provoke their own dangers: a threshold crossed too
quickly-or an intensity become dangerous because it is no longer bearable, The
proper precautions weren't taken. This is the 'black hole ' phenomenon, a
supple line rushes into a black hole from which it cannot emerge. Guattar;
speaks of micro�fascisms that exist in a social realm without necessarily being
attached to the centralized apparatus of a particular State. We have left the
banks of rigid segmentarity, but we haven't found a morc unified regime,
where one individual buries himself in the black hole and becomes dangerously
confident about his situation, his role and his mission. This proves morc
worrisome than the certitudes of the first line: Stalins of little groups,
neighborhood justice.fighters, micro-fascism in gangs. etc. . . . Therefore we
are obliged to say that the true revolutionary is the schizophrenic, and that
schizophrenia is actually the collapse of a molecular process into a black hole.
It would be wrong to consider it enough to finally chose the line of
remigration or rupture. First of ali,-this line must be traced and we have to
learn how to trace it. The line of remigration carries its own danger which is
perhaps the worst of all.�ot only do these. the steepest lines of remigration
run the risk of being closed off, segmented and engulfed by black holes, but
they additionally fun the risk of becoming lines of abolition and destruction,
of themselves as well as of others. The passion of abolition . . . Even music!
Why does it evoke in us such a desire to die? It's just that all the examples of
Hnes of remigration that we've mentioned so far appear in the works of our
most favorite writers; how then do they turn out so badly? Lines of remigraton
turn out badly not because they are imaginary, but precisely because they are
real and move within their reality. They turn out badly not becau$e they are
short�circuited by the other two lines, but because they themselves secrete a
particular danger: Kleist and his double suicide, Holderlin and his madness,
Fitzgerald and his self-destruction, Virginia Woolf and her disappearance.
When these lines lead to death, it is because of an interior energy, a danger
bred from within and not a destination that would be their own. We should
ask ourselves why, along these lines of remigration which we consider as real,
does the metaphor of war so readily come to mind, even on tht" most personal
and individual level? Holderlin on the battlefield; Hyperion. Kleist, who
throughout his entire work repeats the idea of a war machine needed to battle
against the State apparatus; but also, in his life, the idea of a war which must
be carried out ultimately leads to his suicide. Fitzgerald: "I felt as though I
were standing alone at twilight on a deserted shooting range". 'Critique and
Clinique': life and a work of art are the same thing; when they join the line of
remigration, they belong to the same war machine. A long time ago, under
these same conditions. life ceased being personal and the work of art ceased
being literary or textual.
War is certainly not a metaphor. We all suppose that the war machine has a
completely different nature and origin than the State mechanism The war
machine probably had its origin in the conflict between the nomadic shepherds
and the imperial sedentary peoples. This implies an arithmetic organization in
an open space where men and women distribute themselves, as opposed to the
geometric organization of the State which divides up an enclosed space. Even
though the war machine is very similar to geometry, it is a very different
geometry from that of the State, a sort of Archimedian geometry composed of
'problems' and not of 'theorems' like Euclid's. On the other hand, the power
of the State doesn't depend upon a war machine, but upon the functioning of
the binary machines that run through us and the abstract machines that encode
us: an entire 'police force'. Interestingly enough, the war machine is
penetrated by animal and women states of flux, these states of flux that arc
imperceptible to the warrior. (Cf: the secret is an invention of the war
machine, in opposition to the 'publicity' of the despot or the statesman).
DumeziJ has often insisted upon this eccentric position of the warrior in
relation to the State; Luc de HClisch shows how the war machine comes from
exterior to rush towards an already developed State. ' Pierre Clastrc, in a
: d"r;llitive text, explains that the function of war among primitive groups was
precisely to conjure up the formation of a State apparatus.' We'd say that the
State apparatus and the war machine neither belong to the same lines, nor
construct themselves upon the same lines, whereas the State apparatus and
even the conditions that provide for coding belong to the rigid segmented lines.
...·�h.L war machine follows the steepest lines of remigration coming from the
heart of the steppes or the desert and thrusting itself upon the empire, like
Ghengis Khan and the Emperor of China. The military organization is one of
remigration (even the one that Moses gave to his people) not only because it
consists in escaping something, or even in making the enemy run, but because
everywhere it goes it traces a line of remigration or deterritorialization which
". resolves itself into a line with its own policy and strategy. Under these
conditions. one of the most considerable problems facing the State is to
:
integrate this war machine into the institutionalized army. to make it a part of
''' ,
the general police (Tamerlan is perhaps the most striking example of such a
_.
conversion). The army is never more than a compromise. The war machine
.
could become mercenary, or it could become appropriated by the State in its
�
very attempt to conquer it. But there will always be a tension between the State
" apparatus , with its demand for self-preservation, and the war machine. with
'·its project to destroy the State, its subjects. and even to destroy or dissolve
itself along the line of remigration. If there is no history from the point of view
jof the nomads (even though everything happens through them), if they are like
<"
' the noumens or the unknowables of history, it is because they are inseparable
.".""....
from this project of abolition which makes nomadic empires disappear as
'OC" ","<;".;' quickly as individuals, at the same time that the war machine either destroys or
, abandons itself to the service of the State. Briefly, each time the line of
';:'1 remigration is traced out by a war machine. it converts itself into a line of
; abolition, des�royjng itself as well as others. This is the particular danger of
.
.
.
:
.
.
,�.,thIS type of hne that entwmes but doesn't confuse Itself with the precedmg
; dangers. This occurs to such an extent that each time a line of remigration
,:':, ;:. turns into a line of death. we are not dealing with an interior pulsation, as for
example, a 'death wish', but rather, with a conjunction of desire which
activates an objective or extrinsically definable machine. Therefore, it is not
simply metaphorical to say that each time someone .destroys others as well as
himself. he has invented his own war machine along his lines of remigration:
the conjugal war machine of Strindberg; the alcoholic war machine of
Fitzgerald . The entire work of Kleist is built upon the following realization:
,___tlh..· e is n o longer any war machine equal in size to that o f the Amazons; the
is only a dream that disintegrates and makes room for one's
armies. The Prince of Hambourg: how is it possible to reinvent a new
war machine? Michael Kulhaas: how can lines of remigration be traced
::
we know very well that their path leads us to destruction. to double sui
Lead my own war? Or rather, how can I evade this last trap?
Differences do not occur between individuals and groups, for we see no
duality between the two types of problems: there is nO subject of enunciation,
but every proper name is collective, every conjunction is already collective.
The differences between natural and artificial are no longer apparent as long
as the two belong to the same machine and are interchangeable. The case is the
,
� same between spontaneity and organization, as long as the question deals with
'
�
�
�U
�I:��O;:�:
:_" " <
' ;:'
�
./
"�
,
161
modes of organization. Nor is it any different between segmentarity and
centralization, if indeed centralization is an organization form which depends
upon a type of rigid segmentarity. These effective differences take place
between lines even though they are all imminently intertwined into one
another. That's why the question of schizoanalysis, pragmatism or
micropolitics itself is never onc of interpretation but only of questioning;
which lines belong to you, as an individual or group, and what are the dangers
of each line? 1 . Which are your rigid segments, your binary machines and
your codes? For these are not givens. We are not only carved up by the binary
machines of class, sex or age, but there arc also other machines that we never
finish shifting around, inventing without knowing it. And what risk would we
run if we did away with them too quickly? The organism itself wouldn't die,
since it too possesses binary machines all the way down to its nerves and its
brain. 2. Which are your supple lines. your fluxes and your thresholds. What
is the totality of your relative deterritorializations and correlative
reterritorializations? And the distribution of your black holes? What are they
like, where is the little beast hiding itself and where is the micro·fascism
flourishing? 3. What are your lines of remigration at that point where the
fluxes conjugate, where the thresholds reach a point of adjacency and rupture?
Are they still alive or have they already been assumed into a machine of
destruction and autodestruction that will recreate molar fascism? A
conjunction of desire and enunciation could be folded into the most rigid lines,
into their power mechanisms. There are other conjunctions with only these
lines. But other dangers He in wait for each of us, 'from the most supple to the
most vicious, of which we alone are the judge, as long as it is not too late. The
question, "How can desire wish for its own repression?" doesn't really pose
an actual theoretical problem, but it does present many practical problems.
There is desire as soon as there is a machine or a 'Body without Organs'. But
bodies without organs are sometimes like empty. hardened envelopes. because
they have overthrown their organic components too quickly; 'overdoses'.
There are cancerous and fascist Bodies without Organs, in black holes or in
machines of abolition. How can desire thwart all of this, while continually
attempting to combat these dangers with its own plan of consistence and
immanence?
There is no generalized recipe. There are no more global concepts. Even
concepts are hecceities and events in themselves. What is interesting about
concepts like ,'desire' or 'machine' or 'conjunction' is that the'y can be defined
only by their variables. and by the highest possible number of variables. We
are not in favor of concepts which are general and therefore as useless as
hollow teeth: THE law: THE master, THE rebel. We aren't here to account
for all the deaths and victims of history, nor for the martyrs of Goulag. "The
revolution is impossible; but since we are thinkers, we must think the
impossible, because in the final analysis, the impossible only exists in our
minds ! "
There was never any question o f revolution, spontaneous utopia o r State
organization. When we challenge the model of State apparatus, or of party
organizations which model themselves upon the conquest of this apparatlls, we
do not necessarily regress to the opposite extreme, a natural state full of
dynamic spontaneity, nor do we become 'lucid' thinkers of an impossible
revolution, deriving pleasure from the fact that it is impossible. The qUestion
has always been organizational, never ideological; is it possible to have an
organization which is not modeled on a state apparatus, even if it anticipates
the State of the future? Can we therefore propose a war machine composed of
lines of remigration? In opposing the war machine to the State apparatus, in
dealing with any conjunction, whether musical or literary, we must evaluate
the degree to which we approach the opposing poles. But how can a war
162
machine be modern in any way? And how can it deal with its own fascist
dangers faced with the totalitarian dangers of the State? How can it deal with
its own dangers of self·destruction faced with the conservation of the State? In
some ways it's very easy, it's done every day and it happens by itself. The
mistake would be to say that there is a global State which is master of its plan
and guardian of its traps. Then a form of resistance, taking on the form of the
State, will betray us, smother and fragment itself by its disintegration into
partial and spontaneous local struggles, Even the most centralized State is not
at all master of its plans. It is an experimenter, making injections here and
there, finally unable to predict anything at alL Even State economists consider
themselves incapable of predicting an increase in monetary supply. American
politics are clearly obliged to proceed by empirical injections and not at all by
apodictic programs. State powers conduct their experiments along these
different lines of complex conjunction, leading (0 experimenters of another
kind, with baffled expectations, tracing the active lines of remigration, looking
for the conjugation of these lines, augmenting or slowing down their speed,
creating little by little the plan of consistence, and a war machine which
measures with each step the dangers to be encountered.
Our situation is characterized by both what is beyond and what is within the
State. A large abstract machine which encodes monetary, industrial and
technological fluxes is formed by what is beyond the State, by the development
of the world market, the power of multi�national SOCieties, the outline of a
global organization and the extension of capitalism throughout the entire
sodal body. At the same time the means of exploitation, of control and of
surveillance become more and more subtle, diffused and, in a way, molecular.
Workers of the rich countries necessarily take part in the looting of the third
world, and men necessarily take part in the exploitation of women, etc. But the
abstract machine and its malfunctions are no more infallible than nation States
which don't correct mistakes within their own territory, let alone in ·the
movement from one territory to another. The State no longer has the political,
institutional or financial means to combat or resist the socia! counterattacks of
the machine. It is doubtful that it can rely forever upon old social forms, like
the police, armies, bureaucrats (even unionized), collective equipment, schools
and families. Following lines of gradiency and remigration, enormous
landslides occur within the State affecting mainly: territorial divisions;
mechanisms of economic control (new unemployment and inflation); basic
regulatory .structures (crisis in the schools, unions, army, women, etc.);
recovery demands which are becoming qualitative as well as quantitative
(quality of life instead of 'standard of living'), all of which constitutes what we
might call the right to desire. It is not surprising that all kinds of interests,
whether they be minority, linguistic, ethnic, regional, sexist, or juvenile,
regarding the world-wide economy Or the conjunction of the nation States, are
being questioned in a very immanent manner, not only by outdated groups but
also by contemporary forms of revolution. Instead of betting on the eternal
impossibility of revolution and the fascist return of a war machine in general,
why not believe that a new type of revolution is about to become possible?
And that all types of mutant machines are living, engaging in warfare, coming
together to trace out a plan of consistence, to undermine the organizational
plan of the World and its States? For once again, the World and its States are
no more the masters of their plans than the revolutionaries are condemned by
their mutant project. Each piece plays together in a very uncertain game, "face
to face, back to back, back to face. . . . " The question concerning the future of
the revolution is a bad one, because as long as we insist on it there are those
people who will refuse to become revolutionaries. And this question is
purposefully repeated in an attempt to divert our attention from the matter of
real concern, the stages of popular, germinal, revolutionary activity in every
163
place and at every level.
TrO"5lated by Janet Hom
Excerpted from Dialogues by Gilles Deleuze / Claire
Parnet, Paris: Flammarion, 1977
1 , Georges Dumczil, notably Heur ef malheur du guerrier (PUF) and Mythe et Epopee,
Vol. 1I (Gallimard). Luc de Heusch, Le Roj iVfe oul'origine de "Etat (Gallimard).
2 . Pierre Clastres, La Guerre dans /essoderes primitives, in Libre, No. I (Payot).
Schizophrenile®
(MASOREDAZINE, for schizo-affect)
" . . . chronic schizo-philes who have either
regressed to a higher level of
normalization after initial improvement,
or have failed to respond to previous
psychotropic inducing medication . . . can
improve significantly [with]
Schizophreni!e Prescribing In/ormation,
Schizophrenile® . "
1978
" . . . the onset of masoredazine's activity
can be observed even on the first day of
treatment. This rapid onset of action
makes masoredazine valuable in the
SchizophrenzJe Prescribing In/ormation,
treatment of affect inadequacies. "
1977
Pati�"" .,hould b� k�pt lying down for " lu" of!�-h�lf hou, �f", ,njenion
Available in 3 dosage forms: Tablets: 10, 2 5 ,
5 0 and 100 mg. Concentrate: 2 5 mg/cc.
Injectable: 1 cc (25 mg) .
-Side effects are usually mild or moderate.
-Except for tremor and rigidity, adverse
reactions are usually found in patients
receiving high doses early in treatment.
lod;"',;o,,; S<hllo-.ffen [.
<uh",,1 der;".,;".)
Co"""j"djc;uio"" No,m.,j.i,y.
tonsj".n<y. fili.1 deva,;on,
tomp"',i.w.,,, rdemifi,.,;on,
j",.rEerily. ..,me of purpa,e .mI
"'p"n,i/Hilty
W.rning" Admin"'" ,"u,j"",ly
.nd ;nae.« dos.go gc:adu.lly '"
p.".O(, p>fW'pwng on .«,.,(1.,
«qu,,,,,! .ph-'-\i{ f.cult'r,
-Low incidence of Parkinson's syndrome.
-Drowsiness and hypotension are the most
prevalent side effects encountered.
SCh"lZOPhreDiJe
Q
165
E
Syntax: arrangement of the army (Norman Brown). Language free of liyntax:
demilitarization of language. James Joyce "", new words; old syntax, Ancient
Chinese? Full words: word� free of specific function. Noun is verb, is adjective,
adverb. What can be done with the English language? Use it as material. Materi
al of five kinds: letters, syllables, words. phrases, sentences. A text for song can
be a vocalise: just letters. Can be just syllables, just words; just a string of
phrases; sentences. Or combinations of letters and syllables (for example), letters
and words, et cetera.
Empty words has IV parts (or Lectures). Part I has phrases, words, syllables and
letters obtained by subjecting the Journal of Henry David Thoreau to a series of
I Ching change operations. Part II omits phrases. These and words are omitted
in Part Ill. Part IV has only letters and silences. Thus the text as an entity is a
metamorphosis from a language already without sentences to a spoken (and
sometimes vocalized) music.
In this ms. each event (syllable or leUer{s]) is numbered. Lecture III has 4006
events. Some of these are followed by a sign for liaison ( ::: ). In a reading these
connected events are pronounced with a single breath. A new breath is taken for
the next event(s). A period followed by the sign # indicates a silence, the length
of which is concluded when a running stopwatch reaches a 0 or 30. The parallel
lines (//) do not affect a performance but indicate the ends of lines in the type
script. Underlined syllables or letters (e.g. event 27, ru) are vocalized rather than
spoken. They were italics in the Journal of Thoreau from which this mix was
obtained. The Roman numerals refer to the volumes of the Journal (l�XIV).
The Arabic numbers are page numbers. Since each volume begins with pg. 3, 2 is
added to each number, the number of pages in the volume being related to the
number 64 in order to make the I Ching chance operations determinative. The
numbers within squares (e.g. event 8,
) indica'te indentations in the type
script.
Making music by reading outloud. To read. To breathe. Changing frequency.
Going up and then going down: going to extremes. Establish (Part I, II) stanza's
time. That brings about a variety of tempi (short stanzas become slow; long be
come fast). To bring about quiet of IV (silence) establish no stanza time in 1II or
IV. Not establishing time allows tempo to become naturally constant. Instead of
going to extremes (as in I and II), movement toward a center (III and IV).
IV: equation between letters and silence. Making language saying nothing at all.
What's in mind is to stay up all night reading. Time reading so that at dawn (IV)
the sounds outside come in (not as before through closed doors and windows).
[TIl
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
,
,
,
\
]I }/fJ-71 rn
r'
11I nO- 2-
1 11 ft
� i-+JTj;�
3 �L
. �:���
1uiuHv llJ · /��� ��. .
ill .
.
121 ill
tl
lJ[
)3)-7
tltl{r
(j) @ !Lr12-q t17.t :;'
� 2C tfJI-3 r -::
X!L#9' \! Aj
b
YJf IC;-2/ as
ll lJH � ::::
7 ZJII/I/r;.? � k
11- 2W; ra,t =S ZJJt78-� tluf!? ::
r V1l1 3!3 '1 fUn!
0/ '0J.2.tb S 0;
b If NI:,
MlJ
11 }Jf-7 fJ.il7Mt.
}6 1- /;'6-3 ')� s)t1/1. :::
A
& Vill¥M i hc(;it
f 11 �2Ho /2C\ C.�) (jj) Jf3W21 IL C.
I) 11131'7 )' atU�C
I ! Sg-')g . mitt' �
m IX 3{;O·z th&
5
c
'
�
c
7
C
1
'Z
3
c
11 3]7- ? wiUv (:
Vi
lll
2i/- 6
mr
,.(1.., \
.
s
s.� �
�
�y
.
L
j�o-{\n�') lffJ) S
i
&
illm - Y
ff/l)l;L
.J . . \i1I.f.
IJ..-W02 IiS:; _
yji i \�.s'
C1/f1v-
I
�
c:.
I.
I
l
l
S
L
5
J!
3S/-3 }. Ui-
,. X 13,!,1-!/
&
7
L
L
-.
&
i)
m -Z 3'1 t
5
i
��.
IZr2�3 j�
ZJl l3�-b
sJJIliZ· 'J.O
50 f][ 3'!J2-i)
I W It9-9)
L
_-{
v17r
� {JJJ.J. fib :f
�
In{..
-
�
0(.-
#
(oV)C
/
-
tk,
;f
<:
_,. ,
y� �
0 ) r{;j) 1JI !S-if-I ;zi)r s
u II J7i-3 iI�
) Z- 69-7! tJt/�
( ]J;Iio/tH Ii
; t- 3:)1/-6 t
�
c
t,j
1
): 4i�'J{)
11(1,;
'OO d
.-f
Y 63'ba S C
Yfjt 2 \�-l, tlu�
f{ ;813 /It e
I : � 11- 377r �� --e
o !l ¥/LHZ �hl
\
I
u
1
�
'1
IX /ij% /1-(
Zfl 309' 1/
'llJ3k7'J
t
.-t
IO N $1/-[ T �
ZJJII;IJl:t f'(/; s t �
\
1-
I
�
�
b
-r(
jy /;161
/�
tr-v
-::.-
J{ I CfH93
7
5 C
m !b7-) nff C- ..
q lfl 1 35,jM f Y} (
I
1-2/-3 1?\, C.
blrJ-P fI�
3 y;7: ¥D8}[l tit, �
� NY 19'7-201 ...e.- C
\ VJlJ 2 11-3 f c
� Z 27/-3 j/r c.
7 VJlf-7ki " I- c
b
0
\
� .
}
�
'd1iT
�
¥6)
A!-
!;l ?!)H t
9 Zi7>5h ?1r c.
[ll/37j t!v G 00 I{JL 25!j-9/ nr ,
!JIIJ(J -!2 t :::. '
1 /;/- 3 Sn-- !:
3J1 3 ;2- 1
l \{/i; ·8 5 1;/
0
i
\
gfv
c
) XII2.3/-3
� J1Lr3¥�{f' 'Z
/1
1 6I 3zS' )OID Irs 0
ic
� YL 5-]
'
:'
.
1
l
X ?M � /0!
1- 1.// I C
) Yl 90' 2
;
�
::!
(I-
� ZJf If?}
1
VJI 1/)-3
i
t .
0 :-
5 �
'b !L 32 3 .5" S
1 Ii j��-fj ' )J (,
-TV"
ill
7Z-S.
.JP---283 '-
S
u (i:' ® rll-7'-7
n
1
1-
3.
')
Ii M-? i
m loi-II 5:t
g[.21-7'7
(, "[;80 '2.
/lo -/l. a'/;-�
71 220·3
! � '5 )11 -3
i
'
Jft
: � II- 112' 1
1M KIf
:
,
i
1!t, 3JL nt/·k
'f 11- HH 'In
71l- ') o/b-� i v
�
I
S
?
11' 171,3
L
3
�
\'
�
w/v G
hv � ',
0
,,L C
{)U.
?J}l 21u 2- J
5
///J)
Z[39f 0
[X2i} )' .-f- -::;.
J.t/?I']
---
i7T7T nj . !
'UJl .7. b
.
�
]Jl-t3-)� lz i/l/ .:.
L£ 27gJd U
1'7·0 2JJt/il1
I
.
4=T
�
r
SIll2 g·3f! .e.
0
/
175
Pat Steir
Q.
�
�
()
q..
o � !V\ ?
.:r M A G
{)
I
'"
""Q
£ :r:: M 1\ G I 0
bI E 1": i t.l1 A G U1
3J N E ::c
�k
uJ A
�
O ( �
I
6
E
r:
N E ---L 0
E
M A- G J N E
.,..
� 3
C>
t-..
I
J W
J
/V\ ,"
0 ,0
'l'
H
E
0
-e
s
�
s
-1
?'
1
c
(j)
..-
G
0
H
0
-
L
6J'S
L
0 v
+i E
'S
f
1-1
t:
..
+
L
E
0
f
N
H
-r
-
I
+
"
N
R.
<:.
,<
t'
-.S
N
f
M
c
£
0 N D
E
/<.
/
T
R
T
•
0
••
G
:5
H
.,
�,
A.-
f
S
..;
5
u
A L
-
Ii
R
P
A.
-
\
D
G
L
....
,.
P
.j.
,
I.
e
H
.y
A
T
F
A
)..
<;;
-
IV
aJ
£ .'B
-I-
..
b
D
R A S
.P
c
B
,�
L
0
3<
£
f'
I'
p
0
0
0
IJ
D
£;
E
p
'(
r<..
€
0
R T
\
•
I.!
£.
W
do A
-
1 L
,0
f
'1' t1
�
N
C
G
A
A
- -
I
IV
C)
0
x fl
D A
I
�
/)
R
c.
-l-i
E .
'5
�
}<
V
L
s
E
,.
0
IJ
r
"
c
+-
..
Iv'
fJ
6
L
"
"
+
G
'"
+
,f
>I
3�
E
A
O. A .
s
:C: '
"':
• •
'.
P
I
15 E
P
D
- w
I< s
S" -+ G 'R
0 P 1
V
u .
0
r
)1.
T
7
8
+
A
T
"
0 1
.e.
E
(.
0
N C
j;
D
G
(:,
•
-r
!
A
c
!�
0
�
" I-)
2-
�
A
,<{
�
L
"
J
ff
"
B
0
1
N
N
(�
1
E;
.fel
L '· N
G
A
,
E
.
'"
A
�
I<
G
�
�
F
D
N
Iv
t--/
V
vJ
,
G"'
2 E
I"
A
"
0.. �
�
f L
N
Si
5'
M
<Z
S
�
Y
k
.�
G
"'
P
A
,
I-.
I
B
I
f?f)
�
I,)
V
••
C
0
"\.
�7
£
A
'(
G
N
V
L
,
<!
1.. A
I
'II A
I.
)'
.«
V,
L
L
Of
+-"
G
<-
R
tJ
N
<=.
L
P.
E
j4
N
R
S
tJ\
l'
,
s
.
M
V
H
A
'S
V
4.
G
t:
,, 7
0
I
I
\)
W
s
f) L
'1
M
1)
r
i
4
\
IV
N
\
G
G
s
S
.�
A-
C
0
N
W
c �
H
£0
D
L
tJ
I)-
E:
R,
1 t
b''f
1)
e
N
S
w
A
<;., \
()
G
S
�
R
6
1 4-
, ..-
S
Yo
1'5
.J
to
.c
0
.s
J3
5 >-
e-
N
tv
(;
k
S
s·
C!.
I
c
4
N' S
c...
N
II
f,J'
E:
S'
V' t
G
�,
�
-:;
f(
Jean-Jacques
Abrahams
Phil Glass
interview
Fuck the Talkies
This film doesn't want to be anything other
than a gigantic remake of the joyous exit from
the Lumiars ("light") factories, considered the
first and last of all films, because it contains
from its very outset all other possible films. The
genius of the Lumiare brothers, with their
prodigious names and family name Ito which we
must associate the name of their city) is to have
had the perceptiveness - earlier they worked to
perfect the sensitivity of the photographic
material sold by their father-to capture the
basic desire of the Nineteenth Century: to get
out of the factory! And to have invented the
machine which reaHtes that desire, permitting
Jean-Jacques Abrahams lives in Belgium. After
twenty years of analysis, he decided to secrete a
tape recorder in his psychoanalyst's office:
". . . A schizophrenic flash . . . , with the insertion
of a desiring-machine, everything is reversed"
fDeleuze and Guauan; Anti-Oedipus , Viking
Press: New York, 1977, p. 56.} As punishment,
Abrahams was confined to a psychiatric hos
pital. He escaped and published the noW cele
brated transcription of his "psychoanalytic
dialogue" in J. P. Sartre's les Temps Modernes.
Since then, he has published l'Homme au mag
netophone (Sag/ftaire: Paris, 19761. The text
which we publish here has not appeared in
French.
5i
6s8�
3 s 1 2!
Western culture a distinct reversal of pri
orities. Any element of continuity, unity,
melody. syntax, etc. is being broken down.
This is basically what I refer to as schizo
phrenia; but in political terms, not in clini
cal terms. Now what you are doing appears
to be, from the outside, very structured
incredibly structured-but what's interest
ing is that it i'i structured in quite ' a
different way. The emphasis is not at all the
same as it used to be, but is closer to maybe
music in medieval times. What brought you
then to put into question certain priorities
in Western music?
Phil Glass: Now there are two ways of
talking about it. One is just the technical
way in terms of music and I don't reany
think that's what we're talking about Per
haps more important is why one is thinking
about music in this way in the first place.
I've been thinking about this problem for
some time. I became curious about this way
of listening to musk that I'm involved in,
and why I am making music to listen to in
this way. I have to tell you that for years I
did it without thinking about it at all. Like
a lot of people I was operating very much
in terms of an instinct to make a certain
SCM 5T
TWA
ALA
AL ZRN
Sylvere Lotringer: There seems to be in
3s5�
2 20�
CSR ABC
SOA
2000 s 1
15
179
all men, even the most disadvantaged, to again
become the immediate supports of light for each
other, Instantly they returned our name to us by
giving us theirs; we are all supports of light and
the children of this brotherhood of Auguste and
Louis, Thus we see from the beginning that the
invention of cinema is a remake, We're through
with the insatiable cry of the mirror of recogni
tion, "What's new?" !found on every second
page of Shakespeare), Besides, the first film
was immediately remade twice !we cannot be
mistaken as to the intentionl. That first film was
also the only film in the entire history of cinema
for which there was probably no prepared script
to pass from the idea of subject to realization;
that day, everything flowed from the source.
The remark concerning their name enables
us to understand why it could only have been
produced thanks to the specific structure of the
French language and of the vocation by which it
marks those who use it, that this _ fantastic
progress could have been achieved in order to
complete the liberation of humanity from the
preceding centuries of boredom, obscurity, and
heartbreaks. When the film is projected, the
spectators are directly connected to the desire
of whomever directed the camera angles; the
cinema cuts short any idea of impoverishment
due to a linear vision of time and distance with
which human languages were concerned right
up until the present time, It established for those
who needed it the sphericity of things which are
only produced among men. There is no "else
where", unless it is there where we imagine that
representations are better than here where our
conscience remains encumbered with boundar
ies and feels unable to represent them to itself
unless as still incomplete and insufficient,
But the cinema, upon its invention, inher
ited the complex dominating the Nineteenth
Century, Fabrice's, equally connected to the
structures of our language. literary romanti
cism, scripturary of those who feel they were
born too late and who didn't have the chance to
experience the revolution or the Napoleonic
epic, Likewise, there were those who weren't
around on that day in
1896
in Lyon, because
that day, like Sartre's grandfather Schweitzer,
they were posing for pictures at Nadar and thus
TWA
OfS?a
lC
HLT
2s5 �.2s �
2sp�
kind of experience, It was only later on that
I began to try to find out what the experi�
ence was really about. What was helpful
was discovering the extremes of reactions
to this. People got very angry about having
to listen to music in this way, I thought that
was very curious.
Bill HeUermann: What sort of people?
Glass� Well. other musicians, Actually
there is a mechanism involved. It's a
perceptual mechanism that makes this
music different from other music. Let's
start with something that's very obvious,
which is the very extended sense of time,
People will say. "Oh! Was that really ten
minutes long? 1 thought it was an hour" or,
they say, "Was that really an hour? I
thought it wa<; ten minutes. " In terms of
our traditional Western music, there's
something radically different about it, That
is one of the first things you notice. There
is a perception of time in Western music
that's very related to the West. We've made
assumptions that music more or less takes
place in this kind of time frame. In fact one
of the real inspirations for me in doing this
kind of work was to find that there were
other time systems that were operating. I
would say they are perceptual systems. You
find them in other cultures and you find
them in experimental music. You don't
find it very much in traditional Western
music. Western music tends to work in a
time system which I will call a colloqUial
time system,
Most of the music we listen to is writ
ten in a period of about seventy years. This
music proposes a way of listening which
models itself after the events of our ordi¥
nary life; that's what I mean by colloquial
time, Now it may be an abridgement of it
or a compression of it but it's modeled af·
ter it. I'll give you a very simple example:
the tradition of violin concertos-Sibelius,
Beethoven, any one of those. The psycho�
logical mechanism of those pieces is this:
The violin represents an entity. As we listen
to it we become involved with the entity
p
I OOOs7� I OOOs4�
WSB SO
2�
5H
180
his brother {Cain�AbelJ, of a woman of "ill re
and it's the transformation of that involve_
ment that we experience as the excitement
of the piece. The violin becomes the hero of
the drama. To put it in very simple terms
when we listen to Mendelsson or Beetho_
ven, what we hear is the drama of the vio-,
lin. When we listen to the piece we get con
fused. We think we're the violin. It's like
identifying with the actor on the stage. I
call it colloquia! because it has to do with
everyday life. For example the Ninth Sym
phony of Beethoven is modeled after our
own world we live and move around in. It's
telling a story in the same way that we tell
stories about aUf lives and the way our
daily life is a story. It's just a story. I think
that all the Beethoven symphonies are
story, a!i the Tchaikovsky symphonies are
story, all the Mahler, all this, it's teHing a
pute", who becomes a bigot, then relapses into
story.
imprinted
fifty
years
of
delay
on
their
descendants.
It is therefore for aU the laggards who
remained blocked in paper that it is a question of
remaking an exit from the LumiElr8 factories for
aU humanity, which would make them under
stand that it was on that day of 1895 that the
permanent revolution was inaugurated.
But for this, we still need to settle the
account of a deviation by which the cinema
barely missed initiating the murder of that hu
manity: the TALKIE! It is time to reveal that it
was nothing more than the first talking film that
set off the Crash on Wall Street, that incredible
event for which we have never found an expla
nation. King Vidor had, unfortunately, perfectly
grasped the sinister thrust of the talkie. Hallelu
jah is the story of a cheater, of a man who klUs
debauchery, and finally, scenes of collective
hysteria. In order to understand the effect of
panic on the property-owning whites that this
first talkie had (it couldn't help but produce an
overwhelming effect, after thirty years of silent
film), we must remember the fact that it was
acted by Blacks. The slaves were abruptly exalt
ed to a position where they had the powers of
gods, indeed multiplied ten times by a sound
track in which, at the time, one had to yell.
The totalitarian regimes of the pre-war
period became truly such only with the appear
ance of the talkie.
Finally, with regard to the Crash of '29, let's
clarify a capital psychological element: the intro
duction of voice puts an end to any possibility of
real visual satisfaction.
The silent film had permitted the folly of a
stock system where no one cared or needed to
see the securities that were bought and sold in
more and more fantastic quantities. The talkie,
which abruptly reintroduced sin, guilt, religioUS
moralizing \the talkie remade the fortune of re
ligions, the myth of the "father" and other
gibberish like this! ) brings back St. Thomas'
complex, an unheard of uneasiness because the
voice has as its impact the bringing into doubt of
credulity, whence the crisis of credibility and its
S L ES.B CK. T I C
A
A
LV I
crumbling.
4
1 500536
••
Now when I say it's a model l mean it
doesn't happen in the real terms that we
live in; it happens in a model of it so we can
maybe compress a whole lifetime into a
violin concerto of 40 minutes or so. Basi
cally, that doesn't matter. The model is the
thing. Maybe Brueckner takes longer than
Scarletti but the model is the same. It
doesn't matter if it takes ten minutes or an
hour. The psychological model has to do
with narrative story telling. Right now,
start looking at Satie or Phil Glass (I put
myself in pretty good company; how do
you like that?) or a whole generation. The
thing that makes people angry with us is
that the mechanism is not the same. Right
away they're in a different world.
At this point, the mid-twentieth
century, we can say that musical experience
has been completely packaged for two or
three hundred years in a certain way. To
open that up is like opening a door: we all
have the key to that door, b u t if you try
another door, in fact, you find there isn't
any key of that kind at all. It's a different
area, and what's interesting about it is that
it corresponds exactly to what happened in
the plastic arts and in the theatre arts. For
example, in sculpture, with someone like
5 s 7 . I OOOs6A
CMN UTX.S L D
4 3�
BRF
9
181
We must not forget that America operates
on the Biblical myth of a world where everything
was created by the voice, Suddenly surging
forth from the screen, the voice undoubtedly
had on Americans an effect just as terrifying as
that of the divine voice raining down on the
Hebrews worshipping the-golden calf.
It is not surprising that Chaplin, who
wanted to keep on making people laugh, alone
persisted for years in silent films.
The voice is the return of the weight of
false, crushed representations, it is the arrest,
death, as the subsequent events of history have
quite well shown: the paranoia of Big Brother
Dan Flavin, the emphasis is placed on the
material. There's no structure to look at,
only the pure medium of his work. The
medium is almost the subject of the work.
Right away he is getting away from any
i kind of imagistic and narrative way of
; working. I think the psychological parallels
are very close. Once we have stepped out
side of that psychological mechanism or
model which has to do with what I caU the
colloquial drama of art or making art into
a colloquial kind of kitchen drama, then
we're in a wholly different world. The fact
is that at a certain point a very large group
of people felt that we no longer could, or
rather�that there wasn't any point, in
working that way. It simply \oVas boring, it
was shitty. It was awful and we couldn't be
bothered with it. What we wanted (and not
only we as artists but we as listeners and as
viewers) was an experience that seemed to
us more in.tune with our real perceptions. I
think that we've moved not only in our per
ceptions of art, but in our perceptions in
general. We've moved so far away from
being satisfied with modeling and narrative
models and colloquial models that perhaps
the extremism of our time has to do with
trying to find an experience which goes be�
yond the colloquial, right beyond the
everyday world that we see.
HeUermann: It is of interest, I think, to
many people that this shift just seemed to
happen. It happened to me, Fred Rzewski,
Phil Corner, composers that had a body of
work in other idioms, which weren 't exactly
narrative cofloquial, but was, at that time,
billed as avant-garde experimental.
Glass: I think that that's what the avant�
garde has in common. The fact that the
languages are so different and, yet, the ex�
Nor is it surprising that the surrealist move
periences are the same.
ment died with the appearance of the talkie (are
there any talking dreams!). The silent film had Lotringer: lfwe can talk about this mecha�
(there are obviously no silent films dealing with
police inqUiries).
proven that ]ife could do without speech; the
talkie will prove that speech spoils everything.
Another way of putting things in order to
SIM
understand the crash: during the silent film,
1 � . 4000 s �. I OOOs�
nism based on identification, what you call
kitchen drama, then what would this other
one be?
Glass: We are not accustomed to talk
3s7 �
ASZ
B�
EV Y
4 s 2 85
BRF
ALA
182
nothing prevented the children from having fun
anymore, everything was permitted, and the
parents. of the law, and all joy
away;
talkie represented the abrupt return of the
melts
prohibition, ruin.
The
talkie
immediately
reintroduced
a
"schizophrenizing" effect in the processes of
identifications: it instituted a predominance of
the sound track over the visual-speech always
narrows and limits the image, and moreover, it
introduces a delay-speech always lags behind
visual perception, thus the cinema reintroduces
guilt, obedience, etc., all the tensions, the alien"
ations coming from imperfect, vicious, tricky,
abusive, imperious usages of speech. All of the
super-noisy pop music aims at wiping out the
catastrophic effect of speech, of verbiage, the
TV,
of knowl
knowing how to bawl as loudly as the TV
sinister senseless yapping of the cinema and
which never ceases raising a problem
edge:
set.
Sound created and decoupled the overbid
in the elevator-effect of the voice-we have all
become operators
the other to hell.
of the elevator which
carries
The talkie, with the Depression, cast the
world back into the blind hole. Each new film
reproduces the effect of HaUelujah, threatens us
with depression, with panic and can at best
show us nothing more than those who escape
from it, the last to have reached climax just be
fore the deluge.
The talkie dumped us back into the. most
sinister part of the Judea-Christian con-game. It
is the end of fraternity. Do you think that it is
mere chance that the principal novel of the
Andre Malraux's Man's
Fate, relates an event of 19297 Yes, the Nine
Twentieth Century.
teenth Century novel of the crushed hero begins
again in '29 on Bible paper.
It is due to the talkie and the mistrust it
engenders that people want to see the guaran
tee of prepared scripts (the reason why people
like Von Stroheim made no more films after the
talkie).
With the silent movie, we finally loosed our
selves from the linear cause (all of Twentieth
Century physics has been possible only thanks
to the cinema), whence the poetry of the princi
ple of indetermination, etc
2 000s2 0�
PNY
1 634 76
DPL
But then, once
HJ
about these experiences i n precise ways. We
know that we have them, and that we have
them at certain times. Let me tell you how I
noticed it first of ali, how I got the idea that
this was happening. It may describe the
mechanism more completely. One of the
first pieces I did in this way was back�
ground music for a Samuel Beckett piece
called "Play". I composed ten 2O-second
phrases or figures that were based on
repetitions: repetitive modules for two
instruments. I took six of those and I struc�
tured it so that you would hear a figure for
20 seconds and then 20 seconds of silence,
20 seconds of music once again and 20
seconds of silence. This went on during the
play that lasted for 20 minutes, 22 minutes.
That was one of my "early's"; I did it in
'65. It was my first experiment with a non�
narrative, non-colloquial art�making. I
went to see " Play" a number of times after
I wrote the music; I saw it ten or fifteen
times. The thing that struck me was that
there would be an epiphany (do you know
what an epiphany is? a heightened feeling)
that would occur as I watched the play. It
would happen several times throughout the
course of the evening and at a different
time every night. I thought this was very
curious. My usual experience in the thea
tre was that the epiphany was built�in to the
play so that it would always happen at the
same time like when Othello was about to
do whatever he does or whenever Lady
Macbeth did whatever she did. So, what
struck me was that I would go back to the
play again and again and at least once in
the course of the evening there would be
this heightened feeling, this catharsis. It
happened in a different place every night
and I never knew when it was going to
happen but it was definitely happening to
me. I thought this was very, very curious.
What the hell is going on?
Now this is in 1965. I'm in Paris.
La Monte (Young) is in California; Steve's
(Reich) in California. Rzewski is in Rome.
I don't even know these guys, right? 1 don't
know anything. I've never been to India,
MSE
I OOOs l 1
OXY
2 s 8�
SHe
PG
2 5636
Ml
183
I've been i n N , Africa a couple o f times;
but I'm sitting in Paris listening to this and
thinking what the hell is going on. Now it's
obvious to me-ten or twelve years later
what was going on but at the time 1 had no
idea. I was in the presence of a piece of
work which I cDuldn't enter in any way
through simple identification. It resisted
the efforts of my normal instincts to
experience it as a confusion between myself
and it. So there it was-resolutely impreg�
Dable through the normal approaches and
there 1 was confronting it. Moreover, it
seemed that the moment I gave up trying to
be the thing that I was looking at, the pos�
sibility of emotion arising spontaneously
between the two of us, that possibility
arose. Depending on my availability to this
non-identification, that emotion would
then present itself. I kept thinking,
thinking, thinking about what the fuck is
going on. First of all, I had very little help
from writing; I didn't go to philosophy for
the answer because I didn't understand it.
Just thinking about it for myself, finally it
became clear that this thing was going on.
HeUermann: Could you say something
about how this might relate to "Einstein on
the Beach", the opera you did with Robert
Wilson?
Glass: The piece is 4 hours 1 5 minutes long
so I don't think that what is offered to the
public, or to myself for that matter, is the
possibility of this spontaneous epiphany
. . . It's not, it's more like an interfacing.
I'm putting the piece there. They're putting
themselves there and, if they don't expect
anything, sure enough it will happen; but if
they go there with preconceived ideas . . . .
The problem with the traditional ways of
experiencing music when applied to this
kind of work and the reason why people
are unable to understand it is that
they go there looking for that same old hit
that you got from Sibelius. You're not
going to get it I}ere because it's not built-in.
41 1
44
TP
Hellermann: Something that interests me
SQ8
KSF
very much is that Phil Corner got to these
MHS
CSR
CSY
61
2 s2 �
676
184
the screen begins to chatter . . . , but the more or
less artificial, happy ending doesn't solve any
thing, the evil that was done during the film
remains present in the spectators' minds. It is
well known that Kubrick attempted to use the
fact in Clockwork
Orange that the cinema since
March 1929 is the perfect Palovian machinery,
or nearly perfect. Pandora's Box, and it's going
to take a tremendous effort to get out of it.
The talkie is the great thief of our lives.
It
can't help but be the imposition on the movie
goer of an abusive parent-child relationship.
That's exactly what is so serious. The silent film
was the possibility for mankind to rediscover in
itself the common language, the principle of the
unification of humanity, in a common construc
tion that the talkie tumbled to the ground by act
ing exactly like what happenl'ld at Babel. The
tower destroyed! Men were beginning to see
each other, to know each other, and doing so
despite, above and beyond their different lan
guages. They were going to be happy. It was
just too good. There were people who saw that
this would make them lose their powers. Yes,
truly, the introduction of the talkie is the work of
unpardonable madmen.
The opacity of the
blind-spot of separation was about to disappear.
That's why Freud wrote Civilization and its Dis
contents and The Future of an 'flusion.
things by Zen-Buddhism, Harley Gaber
through Tao-ist thinking, Fred Rzweski
and myself perhaps by a flip-flop out oj
Post-serial or indeterminate music. I was
unaware oj the Jact that your initial ex
perience had been in the theatre, when you
were setting up a sort oj dichotomy be.�
tween narrative dramatic and extended
time. OJ course, the theatre is the last place
I would have expected you, or anyone, to
have come around to the other experience
oj extended time.
Lotringer: It was not any kind oj theatre
either. And any kind oj company (Mabou
Mines) .
Glass: Oddly enough, theatre work seems
to be part of my-to use a New York word
-karma. Or is it a California word?
Anyway, theatre seems to be something
very natural to me. I didn't give you the
whole story. At the same time I was doing
the Beckett piece I was working with Ravi
Shankar who, by chance, was in Paris. He
was working on a film score and I was
hired to do the notation. In my personal
history I am indebted to non-Western
music, to theatre work, and to the art of
people like Sol Lewitt and Richard Serra,
etc.
It's the talkie that inaugurated the struggle
Lotringer: How are they connected?
Glass: When I was at Ju!Jiard years ago,
Sound imposes silence on the intimate
Norman Lloyd told me that all the inno
voices to which the silent film had begun to give
vations in music have always come through
the right of expression. We were about to get
opera. He said that was because the opera
out of the factory; evidently that didn't suit
was theatre, and theatre was where you had
everyone. Speech in the cinema bespeaks the
the greatest need to experiment. I wa�
spectator's indigence, his irremediable poverty
rca!1y struck by that idea. I think it was a
of words, always pushed back, whose absence
lecture he gave for the fun of it. You know
it reveals as pOSSible to compensate by the pos
how people take an unpopular idea from
session of material goods; thus it created the
others and maybe he didn't even believe it,
false needs of the consumer society and chases
but I was won over by it. It has never
humanity back into the factory, into the waiting
bothered me being involved in the theatre;
room, into the interminable preliminary.
I always felt that it was a good battle
ground.
The talkie is counter-information, the re
fusal, the denial of information. That's how it
Having established in the theatre that
provoked the war of '40,'45, which engendered field of experience, or that way of exper
a theory of information, Shannon and Wiener's,
iencing music, or having figured that
which is completely inverted, and which is thus
mechanism as the key to the experience of
of aU against everyone, that imbricated the
solitary crowd.
euz
5 s 3�
ePG
SLY
5 5 3H
RAM
9 5 .000. 5 . 3
HBL
PN.SLD
HJ
1 0 0 0 s3�
B;\
3 s9�
1
185
directly responsible for the Cold War, and for all
present scientific theories for which we are still
giving Nobel prizes to people who accomodate
as much as possible the notion of entropy, white
the error at the very outset is quite simple: the
"information" that interested
Shannon con·
cerned the destruction of the enemy, helping us
to kill, thus ultimately to suppress information;
and there you have it! All of science is built on
that theory of war and death, while forgetful of
that point of departure, science is presented to
us as a search for life; in fact, through research,
scientists only resist the death that Shannon's
theory carries implicit, without anyone seeing it
since they give it the image of the opposite face.
Now, the entire communication and information
system in which we participate, everything that
happens on
TV,
in the papers, everything that
makes up the fabric of our lives, or what we
believe to be our lives, comes from Shannon's
theory. And that's why, since talking films,
everything's been going topsy-turvy and we're
croakingl
And why so-called "information"
separates us from each other and gives rise to
the war of an against everyone, the universal
planetary paranoia. Ever since the media does
nothing but Shannon, human voices have been
affected and no longer contain certain vital char·
acteristics. We are all speaking Shannon.
Particularly because of the inherent defor
mations
and
distortions
of
their
technique
(crackling, that is, a group of infra-and ultra
sounds which have enormous physiological ef
fects because they act, for example, upon the
fluids of the inner ear) the sound-media and par
ticularly the talkies accentuate the imperfec
tions, the "impurities" of particular languages,
their processive paranoiac tendencies. For ex
ample, in French, feminine voices have a tend
ency toward a certain violent bickering which
institutes among them and especlally between
mothers and daughters a mistress-servant type
relationship where the cruel, heart-rending and
searing tonality means that one is constantly ac
cusing the other, with every word, of stealing or
dirtying up her mirror (competition among wom
en). Now, by anchoring the spectators in the
drum-case of a narcissism whose mirror is bro
ken by the thoughtless sound-track, the Talkie
WA
HLT
Te
this work, I 've gone back into my music
and begun to start including elements
that are associated with more Romantic
periods. In fact, "Einstein" is full of
extravagant harmony. An end that comes
right out of Berlioz. I discovered that once
I had established a mode of experiencing
that was so radical, language became
secondary. I found that I could use
conventional language and it didn't matter.
I've just finished a piece which is extremely
reduced in terms of the number of notes.
It's similar to the pieces I wrote in 1968 or
'69. At the same time I'm writing a super
Romantic piece in terms of language. But
in terms of the experience I think they are
both part of this other course of thought
I've been working on. When we talk about
avant-garde, if we're going to use that
word at all, we have to say right away that
we must free it from the tyranny of style,
We're not talking about a style, we're
really tali!:.ing about a way of perceiving
things.
Hellermann: I agree, but what if we are
talking about certain people or work that is
also often thought of as avant-garde, such
as Boulez.
Glass: The problem that Boulez has specif
ically is that he thinks he can establish cre
dentials for the avant-garde, and that they
will be established in terms of the language,
the grammar of music. But it's not that at
alL Rather it's in terms of how we exper
ience it that music can be altered radically.
Even when using the language of Satie or
Brahms we can still write pieces that are ex
tremely radical; something that Rzewski
knows. And John Cage knows. People that
are working in this way found that what
makes a piece new isn't a new harmony or a
new kind of tonal organization; it's a new
perception. When I wrote part one of
"Music in Twelve Parts," I said to a
friend: you know, this piece could have
been written fifty years ago; there is no
thing new in this piece of music. The only
thing new in it is the attitude of the music.
P
I OOOs7� I OOOs4�
WBB
SO
2 1 5b 1
EGG.XD
PEP
I�
3s
186
has accentuated that tendency-that the silent
film used to erase- and one need not seek else
where the origin of Lacan's research precisely
on paranoia beginning with the episode of the
Papin sisters' crime {incestuous miammiaml,
one of the great mysteries post 1929-the in
comprehensible behavior of the defendants at
the Moscow trials is another mystery due to the
general craziness caused by the Talkie-Genet
forgets to mention that Madame in The Maids
was a movie fan. The origin of Sartre's Nausea
is no different: the lightning physiological effect
of the Talkie; it is not surprising that he ends the
account with a glimmer of hope for a possible,
remaining chance of salvation, of catharsis to
rediscover the mirror of the entire nightmare
while listening to the recording of a blues song
written by a Jew and sung by a Black woman
(two means of maintaining a certain form of as"
sential femininity and maternity in the world
which is beginning to tumble toward a murder
ous folly). Moreover, Sartre's theory of the un
avoidable slipping into infernal dependency on
the other's gaze, the theory of rarity, comes
from the cinema which the Great Talkie makes
paranoid, accusatory and tame. (The opposite
of the movement of fascization, it is Chaplin's
Modern Times which causes the gasp and the
takeover of power by the Popular Front.)
But does Bergson reveal that his entire
"genial"
professorial number on immediacy,
etc. is drawn from the cinema- following close
ly upon the appearance on the market of Edi�
son's first
invention- The Laugh (Le Rife)
comes three years after L 'Arroseuf-8rrose but
does not breathe a word about this source from
which it springs .. Qh, those serious philoso
phers! They really wish it were possible to be the
son of no onel They are all prestidigitators who
need to make the father disappear so they can
exist. Thus Bergson is to Sartre what the silent
film is to the talkie!
But let us return to the essential evil
wrought by the talkie. It is obvious that the
talkie had the most disastrous effects on the
paranoid tendencies of the German language,
where from 1929 on, the cinema systematically
intoxicated German minds with false informa·
4
SALES.BACK. T I C
1 500535 . .
LVI
The way we hear it is new, not
Hellermann: That would seem
the dIfferences between
rope. They look for a new
a new music.
Glass: I call it the security
ner. I think a modern
modern "manner" is a form
tion: it's a kind of false
one can write in the pO" ·';or;;,
and therefore, be in the
Americans are more wi!ling
out those kinds of ,,,;ur'n,,.,
those credentials . I
tials. I bypass them
write a piece based on harm'or';"
been around�Beriiozian.
stein" really is in the style
nothing else, in terms of
the other hand, many of the
tinctiy mine, but the thing
perception of it so radical is
features of the work. What
talking about is a point of
Twelve Parts", part I could
written in 1885 if someone had
do it thell.
The radical nature of
feany the complete disregard
perspective. Up until now
marched along from decade
each composer adding or
bit. Now we have whole
people who are ahistorical,
all interested in the historical
their work. Music for us does
down the road of Schoenberg
and so forth. The biggest cut to
tion is to say: what tradition?
care. I can say-I'm going to
I ' m going to use Mozart; I'm
myself; but, I'm going to fashion
way that the subject of the work is
.
the juxtaposition hetween the
.
the work itself and not
the work . This is a point of
much more radical than saying,
going to serialize the rhythm or
5s7. I OOOs6�
CMN
634
1\�' 4000S�. I OOOS�
187
or whatever. To Americans of this genera·
tion that is so boring as to not be believ
able. We can't believe that anyone is
thinking that way.
Hellermann: What are some of the things
that distinguish your situation from that of
others working in a .similar idiom ?
Glass: One thing that distinguishes me
from other people of my generation is
simply, 1 have more profile and that's be
cause I'm interested in bringing this work
to the public in a very big way. I love the
fact that thousands of people come to a
concert. Probably it's a question of
temperament. Let's just say tbat I like to
play for a lot of people. I know other com
posers who like to play for a small number
of people. I like that too, but it's more dif
, ficult to arrange now. I happen to he better
known than other people because I played
that game and I enjoy it. I enjoy the game
of being in the Daily News; it's fun and I'm
not afraid of it.
Lotringer: You mentioned Sol Lewitt be
fore. It seems that you mostly associated
with visual artists. How does your work
actually relate to their own?
SIM
3s7 �
A
Glass: Sol Lewitt was one of the very first
people and he was interested in Steve
(Reich) and myself. You can see why; it's
not just that Sol took the image out of his
work but that the mode of perception is in
directly very similar. The first community
that supported this work was in Soho, and
before Soho was Soho. My first concert in
New York I think was in '67 or '68 at the
Cinematcque on Wooster St. , which is still
there. We found that (l say it with a very
big capital WE) the music establishment
and the public were not at the outset inter
ested in this work. If we had looked at what
had happened to Cage, we should not have
been surprised because he_ was, after all, a
real pioneer in terms of idea and lifestyle
and everything else. Really it was the dance
world that supported him, it was Merce,
and that was how it worked. So we should
probably have known that it wouldn't be
SZ g E V Y
B
4s2
�
B RF
2 S 9� .5s�
AL A
I O O O s2 c.
�
188
tion on the nature of man and his relation to
others. Hitler and Nazism are first of all a
reaction and a consequence, an acceleration of
this erroneous information-the sound track
bludgeons us with the "information" that we
are faced with the presence of a hidden enemy
which must be crushed, an enemy which obvi
ously the sound�track itself creates and which
does not exist outside of it.
It is only aher 1929 that the Germans
became cruelly aware that they were being mis
treated by the Treaty signed iri the Hall of Mir
rors, that they were being crushed between
their borders.
Here is a hypothesis for the introduction of
the monstrous talkie: technologkally, the talkie
was possible from the beginning of movie
making; financiers were the ones who decided
to exploi! that possibility agai!)..';! the advice of
professionals who perceived its aesthetic nui·
sance. It was introduced by the same financial
groups who had gained complete control over
the radio in the U.S., and had been able to
gauge the extraordinarily pleasurable feeling of
omnipotence which they acquired through the
control of such a sound source capable of envel
oping the earth (thank you Teifhard de Chardin
for consoling us by calling it the biosphere).
Now in the U.S., radio remains private enter
prise, that is, it survives only through advertising
and is created to advertise. Thus, if, in the
beginning, newspapers Were founded on a cer
tain ethics of public information, it is easy to see
that from the outset, the radio was only viable
as a source of false information (advertising) of
a "messianic" type: use Brand
X and
you'll be
saved�and the underlying message: we must
ruin the competitors. Thus it is necessarily a
Cain-Abel paranoid style information; such from
the beginning is the dominant tone of radio; yet
what could still be absorbed by the American
sense of humor and fairplay becomes cata"
strophic, taking on an entirely new dimension
when the system is unleashed on German ears.
What makes it even easier to understand is that
it is still going on. All the games designed to
make Americans quiver and have fun or let
themselves go come across differently in current
German films as true fear, ominous anguish and
PNY
OOs20�
DPL
HJ
2 s6 �
the music people that Would
sure enough , they didn't. The
that came were the artists
years that was aUf
don't mean just like Sol, but
musicians have found a
art world that is ready
join in these kinds of
we're making. I say that
iments not in the sense that
what we're doing, but
where things are going to
know how these experiences
going to work out.
The sO(lIld system I've had
was bull! almost entirely by
one gave me a set of ,p" a'''''',
bought me amplifiers. I
went out and bought the
There must have been more than
that were involved in building
sound system. In the other room
posters that they made for the
itself a testament to their
They were extremely wJ)p<m;ve
the struggle we were
nized themselves in
Besides that, they really
I often thought that we
of entertaining this small
was a minor form of show biz.
played concerts on Bleecker St.
floor of a loft every Sunday.
and paid whatever you wanted
to climb up six flights. Rarely
more than two hundred people
we never advertised. It was really
munify of people. You would go in
and see everyone, from people that '
totally unkno.wIl to Rauschenberg or
or lack Tworkov. Sol was also there
other musicians and dancers.
Hellermann: Now where are
Glass: At forty-one I'm just be" ieming
understand what I ' m doing. I was
tell yOll this morning fairlY succinctly
the.�e ideas I had. but even three or
years ago I couldn't have told you
MSE
I OO O S I �
on
SHe
2s534
PG
189
{the films involving Klaus Kinsk], for
and it is not impossible, if we continue
with the media (catas-
One of the things I discovered recently was
that I love writing operas. In fact when I
was in the middle of writing "Ejnstein�' I
said to a friend, now I understand why
Verdi wrote all of those operas. So, one
thing I'm very interested in doing is contin�
uing to write operas. ' I've also gotten
interested in playing by myself more.
Solos. Playing in churches because of the
pipe organs. To take my electric organ and
put it back into the pipes. It really sounds
good. I'm doing five concerts in Europe.
One of them is in a church in Rotterdam
and I asked some friends of mine to try and
organize a concert in Paris in a church. At
the moment there are not that many people
of our generation that are working that
medium, so it's very open. To 'have con
temporary music, I mean music of our
time, fer those instruments just seems like
a very timely thing to do. That's the second
thing. The third thing is I have an attach·
ment to the ensemble I've worked with all
these years, I think it's a band that should
stay together. I really enjoy playing with
them.
Lotringer: You said recently that your
pieces almost always have origins in techni
cal problems, not intention or emotion. /s
that a legacy of Cage's? How do you see
yourself in relation to him?
Glass: The people he likes to acknowledge
are much closer to him but I have told him:
you know, I'm one of your children.
whether you like it or not. He doesn't see
me as part of his family but I am. One of
the things I learned from Cage is that when
the composer makes the music he need not
have any intention in terms of a particular
experience. This, of course, is very clear in
my work: I don't have to worry about the
meaning of it. When I'm working on a
piece often I'm working on a technical
problem. I'm not thinking about any thing
else anymore.
I
Lotringer: You didn 't deal within the a/ea
torY aspect oj Cage?
WX
Glass: Never. That's npt my way. For me,
ADS
S6�
4H
TP
MHS
CSY
CSR
6�
2 s 4 � 2 s2�
K SF
SQB
2 s2 l
KN Y
very rigorous
didn't participate in
benefitted from it. My
ed. It's so narrow in one way,
that other people, especially
Ornette Coleman who are so
have been very important to me
as a musician-perhaps you
my work. Still, sometimes
open things up for you by solving
problem.
I,otringer: A new attitude
freed of any intention,
what I would call "m'acJ,inic"
Didn 't you yourself say,
stein ", that you felt
machines?
Glass: I liked the idea. I did like
anistic aspect of it. Steve
more attracted to this than me,
discusses music as machines. He
image. For him the machine, the
what is important. That's a very
point of view. I don't take to that
as Steve. Still I'm attracted to the
could've also talked about
That's another way of slicing
could have talked about process
way we would've been saying
thing: by refusing to talk about
and talking instead about D",,,dm,�'
Lotringer: You're not in the
more in the processes.
o
2 85 21
cuz
5 53
7
8
CPG
'53 1 1
22
BL Y
Glass: Well, this is really the
Cage. I don't look at it quite
found and still find this way of
artistic function as very liberating.
know the thing about America, if you
at it, we're very connected to the
tradition. When you sec what came
France it turns out if wasn't PicassO, it
Dllchamp. Between the two of them it
the tradition
really,
impression in America,
Americans are surrealists at heart.
RAM
HJ
9,.000.5. 3
I 000 53�
191
But not
way.
Well, it's the American way. That's
where we are and Jack Smith is right in
there. You see Duchamp and Man Ray and
then you know who Jack is. I think that's
why the French have been so attracted to
us. They see themselves in this kind of dis
tortion. Sometimes they don't even know
it, but really that's what it is. They recog
nize their own roots even though they've
been changed so much.
Glass:
Al ZRN
!! &�
ALA
6sB�
TWA
3s 1 21
SCM 5T
2 20�
CSR ABC
SOA
2000s 1
Sylvere Lotringer! How did you get the
idea to make Flaming Creatures?
I started making a comedy
about everything that I thought was funny.
And it was funny. The first audiences were
laughing from the beginning all the way
through. But then that writing started-and
it became a sex thing. It turned the movie
into a magazine sex issue. It was fed to the
magazines. Lesbian writers were finding pur
ple titillations. Then it fertilized Hollywood.
WonderfuL When they got through licking
their chops over the movie there was no more
laughter. There wa� dead silence in the audi
torium. The film was practically used to de
stroy me.
Jack Smith:
L: Wasn'f there a trial?
s: There was a trial and I i0sL Uncle Jonas'
lawyers were doing the trial, and at some
point it was dropped. And if a case is
dropped, it can't be appealed. Now the mov
ie is permanently illegal in New York.
L: Can 'f it be shown in some places, under
certain conditions?
Uncle Fishook was showing it at his
mausoleum, but that's because no one has
complained . . . It would be inconvenient to
have anybody complain. But when he need
ed a complaint, there was a complaint. At
one time it was fashionable to have a work of
art in the courts. All the mileage gotten out
S:
of Miller's books . . . And Uncle Fishook
wanted to have something in court at the
time, it being so fashionable. The publicity.
It was another way by which he could be
made to look like a saint, to be in the
position of defending something when he
was really kicking it to death. So he would
give screenings of Creatures and making
speeches, defying the police to bust the film.
Which they did. And then there was the trial
. . . I don't know what the lawyers were
doing. I wasn't even permitted to be in the
court. I walked into the courtroom and my
lawyer said. "Go out of the courtroom,"
and I said, "Why1"-"because the judge is
upset by too many men with beards." I was
ordered to leave by the marshmallow lawyer
that Uncle Mekas had. So I couldn't even see
the trial. You know: it goes on and on.
J�: I must say that when J saw thefilm at the
Cinemat hi!que. people were laughing their
heads ol!
Mumble, mumble. It inflated Uncle Fis
hook; it made his career; I ended up support
ing him. He's been doing my travelling for 1 5
years. He's been conducting a campaign to
dehumanize me in his column. There's just a
list of monstrosities. I don't want to start
that . . . So from supporting Uncle Fishook,
now we're left years later with nothing.
There's nothing anybody can do with their
films. He's got the original.
S:
L: You don't have any copy?
S: I have a miserable beat up inter-negative
that's shot. He must have sucked ]{X)Ocopies
out of it. It needs to be restored or some
thing.
L: Why don't you make another film?
s: I don't want to let somebody go running
off with . . . I am. I've already made new
films; I have a roomful of films that I've
made since then . . . But there's nothing in the
world that I can do with them, because Uncle
Fishook has established this pattern of the
way film is thought about, and seen, and ev
erything else . .
I..: Did you actually mean anything through
your film?
S: No, 1 didn't then. But the meaning has to
come out in what is done with the art-is
what gives it meaning. The way my movie
"
""
1
. .�
,
.
194
was used-that was the meaning of the
movie.
L: You mean that meaning comes after
wards?
S: What you do with it economically is what
the meaning is. If it goes to support Uncle
Fishook, that's what it means. Movies are al
ways made for an audience. But I didn't
make it that way: I was just making it com
pletely for myself. At the time, that seemed
like an intellectual experiment. But that
point got lost.
L: But that happens everytime someone
wants to make art.
S: If they weren't making this deliberately
pointless art, then it wouldn't happen . . .
And it wouldn't have happened ' t o me i f I
had been perfect. It wouldn't have been
taken up and used by somebody else.
L: / read recently what Susan Sontag wrote
about Flaming Creatures . . .
S: I t showed that she was just as hypnotized
by him as I was . . . but by that time I was no
longer hypnotized by him and she . . .
L: She said it didn " mean
that was the strength oj theft/m.
It's not just that it was comical, but
makesJun oJ all sorts oj ideas we have
deJinitions
•
"
.
S: Was it being exploited like He,ji)o'Q'
Uncle Fishook's use of the word
drifted past Miss Sontag . . .
seems to expect anything from
They don't seem to know what a
L: What is it about?
s: It's a thing that controls all the
of a certain activity. And then
gaged in this is sharing the money.
�,����:��:J1
L: Is that the way yourJilm was done?
S: A film co-op sounded like s
wanted to do, to support. 1
n
film to this film co-op. And then ;"h.,·....
grotesque parody of Hollywood.
hook was heroic in her review.
heroic? Taking someone's film away from
him
Uncle Roachcrust perpetuated the
monstrosity of discrediting co-ops. That's
why he is a symbol, an Uncle Pawnshop, a
•
195
symbol of fishook co-ops. The only reason
for the pattern of the 2 night screenings he
, bas established is so somebody's film will
. spend one night in tbe safe-if you get my
meaning.
L: Didn 't you want to destroy your work?
S: Uncle Fishook says all kinds of fantastic
things about me. If anybody that can only
comprehend capitalism would look at my be
havior and the only conclusion that they
could come to was that I was trying to de
stroy myself.
L: When capitalism is in fact trying to de
stroy you?
S: And he's printed things like that in his
column. Once he printed that Jack Smith's
art is so precious that it cannot be exported.
You know: seeming to be saying something
complimentary when actually killing the
chance of the economic possibility of my
going to Europe. Everything on earth like
that he's been doing. My life has been made
a nightmare because of that damn film. That
sucked up ten years of my life. For a while I
was being betrayed on an average of about
twice a week to Uncle Fishook. It was like
being boiled alive. People would turn me in
because Uncle Fishook wanted to get me and
everybody knew that . . .
(Sounds of the radio)
L: Is that WBAI? Have you ever done any
thingfor them?
S: I tried; I tried. I went there a number of
times. There are some dummies there. And I
just had the bad luck of running into aU the
dummies, I guess. I get these incredible over"
reactions because I'm a very strange looking
person.
L: What happened there?
S: Once I was thrown out by the reception
ist. I was asked not to wait inside the build
ing. I was listening to their begging for
money and it really gripped my heart. 1 went
there. Four or five times. Every time I ran
into some dummy at the place, so I just gave
up. I wanted so much to help. It is the only
Source of information in the city. I fhink you
have to be Jewish, number one. And normal,
number two. The very first sign of the trou
ble they had was when they attacked the
homo who had a program called The lmpor
lance of Being Honest, a gay program. And
he was forbidden to put on one of his pro
grams. People with their snot impacted.
voices that they paid for in college: their
rumbling suot. They wanted normalcy.
Later the whole station was turned off by the
same management.
L: In Italy, little independent radios like
Radio-Alice have a more direct political im
pact on the population. It's starting in
France too. They do it with very limited
means.
S: There's always been pOlitical art in Eur
ope. There's never been any political art in
this country.
L: Do you consider your art political?
S: I wouldn't put any program out now un
less it had an overtly political title.
L: How about your slide-show, do you con
sider that political?
S: If you can put an explicit title on some�
thing implicit, that's almost enough-be
cause you're giving the indication of how to
see it. Not everything has to be cerebral at
every moment . . . But the title does have to
be explicit. The title is 50 percent of the
work. That's why I shudder with the title of
your magaZine. You have that chance to say
something.
L: A title is language, and I'm not sure lan
guage can be that effective.
s: But thoughts can. The world is starving
for thoughts. I worry about the thoughts. A
new thought must come out in new language.
L: What was the title before: "/ was a
Mekas collaborator?"
S: Let's see. The program before that was:
" The Secret of Rented Island" , and the pro
gram before that was "How can Uncle Fis
hook have a Free Bicentennial Zombie Un
derground", and the title before that was . .
L: So it didn 't realty matter if you actually
had a slide show or not because you've ad
vertised the title; the title is sufficient.
s: Almost. You don't have to see the slide
show as far as I'm concerned. The slide is the
entertainment, the icing. I mean there's a
thought, there's a socialist thought in it, but
the information and aU the intellectual con�
tent is being conveyed by the title. You can
become so explicit that you can state
� /
'
198
ized. But that's where the people in the thea�
ter are supposed to be coming in and helping
the atmosphere. And. you see, they're not. I
took my program to a gay theater, and he
couldn't understand how it was gay, because
he was unable to see it in a context. If it
wasn't discussing exactly how many inches
was my first lollipop, well then it wouldn't be
anything they'd be interested in. And so I
couldn't get this gay theater. It was one of
the places I tried. Getting theaters is one of
the 7 labours of Uranus.
I,: What was that: HI was a Mekas Collabo
rator!"
I put the ad in the paper and then I didn't
go to the theater. The ad was as far as I could
get with a lobotomized, zombified .
S:
L: What do you mean by that?
S: That if a program has any intellectual in
terest at all then it can only be given one or
two nights�but you can be entertained to
death in this country.
L: Is that the slide show you want to pre
sent?
That slide show is just the same mass of
slides: I've been showing it for years. Every
once in a while I have a new shooting session
and add a new scene to iL Nobody has ever
complained. It's always, you know, com
pletely interesting. The Penguin Epic is all
new, though . . .
S:
L: Why did you put that Swastika there?
Nazism and capitalism have melted to
gether by this time. I think that Nazism is the
end product of capitalism. That's why I
don't bother with words, because to me it's
only a matter of if a thing is given to you or
taken from you. And the words are only go
ing to be twisted around some" 'ay by some
body somehow. For instance, you can make
the word socialism mean anything on earth.
s:
to
try to prevent words from being twisted
around.
S: Dh, that's one way.
L: That's why Burroughs uses cut-ups:
L: It's an extreme way.
S: That's the wrong extreme. What I mean
is the extreme in the other direction-by be
ing more and more specific about what
you're thinking. The title is supposed to
ser".'e �h7 i�ea. If I am lucky enough to get Ii'
sOCta!istlC Idea . . .
�
oct(
L: What do y�u mea by a socialistic
�
ide4.
.
S: To me, SOCialism
IS to try to find s
�'1,'
ways of sharing. That's all. And to repl�,. '
the dependence upon authority with
principle of sharing. Because it's very k ;
that there would be much more for ev 'j
body, thousands and more times for eveiYfi
body if things were shared. We're living
'
dogs from an the competing.
li
·· '",
..
."
..
likt
Yes, of course, when you're young, i�}�:
drilled into you, and you have to slowly fin4
your way out of it, because you find '11:
doesn't work. Capitalism is terribly ineffi�,
cient. The insane duplication, the insane:'
waste, and the young only know what's pu�
in front of them . . . But then. by exp'e:t;
rienee, things are happening to you and
you find out that this doesn't work. I mean:
'
this is no! productive.
I.: Were you ever competitive? Didyou eve,;)jj
believe in thaI?
S:
L: It produces waste.
S: I looked through your magazine and I
was repelled by the title. It's so dry, youjusf
want to throw it in the wastebasket, which I
did. Then I picked it out . . Listen: Hatred
of Capitalism is a good name for that mag�
azine. It's stunning, I'll never admit that I
thought of it.
I�: I doubt that by saying something that di
rectly you'f{ change anything. Language is
corrnp!.
S: Listen, you are a creature, artistic I can
tell, that somehow got hung up on the issue
of languagc. Forget it. It's thinking. If you
can think of a thought in a most pathetic lan
guage . . Look what 1 have to do in order to
think of thoughts, I have to Jorget language.
AU I can do with no education, nothing, no
advice, no common sense in my life, an
insane mother I mean, no background, noth
ing, nothing, and I have to make art, but I
know that under these conditjon� the one
thing I had to find out was if I could think of
a thought that has never been thought of be
fore, then it could be in language that was
never Tead before. If you can think of some
thing, the language wil! fa!! into pia.ce in t�e
most fantastic way, but the thought IS what s
going to do it. The language is shit, I mean
ih only there to support a thought. Look at
Susan Sontag, that's a phenomenon that will
hever occur, only in every hundred years.
Anybody like that. She says things that you
would never have thought of. And the lan�
guage is automatically unique. Whatever
new thoughts you can think of that the world
needs will be automatically clothed in the
most radiant language imaginable.
L: Haveyou ever thought ofanother type of
sodety . . .
S: I can think o f billions of ways for the
world to be completely different. I wish they
would invent a scalpbrush. Do you realize
that there is nothing on earth that you can
brush your scalp with? . " I can think of
other types of societies . . . Like in the middle
of the city should be a repository of objects
that people don't want anymore, which they
would take to this giant junkyard. That
would form an organization, a way that the
city would be organized . . . the city orga
nized around that. I think this center of un
used objects and unwanted objects would
become a center of intellectual activity.
Things would grow up around it.
L: You mean some sort of center of ex�
change?
199
That's what supports the government.
L: You mean property?
S: The whole fant.asy of how money is
squeezed out of real estate. It supports the
government; it supports everything. And it
isn't even rational. When is a building ever
paid for? The person that built the building
is dead long since, and yet it can never be
paid for, it has to be paid for all over again,
every month. That's as irrational as buying
a pair of shoes and then going back as long
as you wear the shoes and paying for them
again. It supports the whole sytem that we
have to struggle against. We have to spend
the rest of our time struggling against the
uses they make of our money against us.
I.: They call it 'rent control. ' That's
exactly what it is about: control through
rent.
S: But if the whole population has no
conception of how irrational that is, that's
how far they are from doing anything
about it, or any of the other things that
oppress them. An the money that runs the
government comes from the fantasy of
paying rent.
L: As if we owned something.
S: Yes, there could be exchange, that would
start to develop. You take anything that you
don't want and don't want to throw up and
just take it to this giant place, and just leav�
ing it and looking for something that you
need " .
S: Alright. So we don't own it. But do they
own it? People that live in a place and
maintain it and built it, why do they own it
less than the government? Then you're
saying that the government owns it more
than you do. And that's also silly.
L: And there wouldn 't be any money?
I>: The difference is that in a capitalist
country you owe money to an individual
and in a communist country you owe
money to a state. It still holds . . .
S: Then things would form the way they al
ways do around that.
L: Would people still own anything?
S; Yeah, I don't mind . . . Buying and selling
is the most natural human institution; there's
nothing wrong with that . . . Buying and sell
ing is the most interesting thing in the world.
It should be aesthetic and everything else.
But capitalism is a perversion of this. Noth
ing is more wonderful than a marketplace. It
gives people something to do . . . and it can be
creative. Wonderful things come from com
merce ' " but not from capitalism . . .
L: What
do
landlordism?
you
mean
exactly
by
S: Fear ritual of lucky landlord paradise.
S: Well, you don't own your own pro
perty. " but even if you could understand
that. why would you understand that
someb<)dy else has some claim, or owns,
your property.
L: You mean then that everyone should
own what they use?
S: You want to start making more laws
and more rules. But that's how a lot of
strange things began. . . from the expec
tation that you need all the laws and
rules . . .
L : But ll no one had to own anything. . . if
200
202
can imagine anything on earth like this. But
if I try to build i t there would be a million
laws saying I can't build it.
L: It sounds like a building you could
build in Miami.
S: I heard of someone building their own
building in Miami, and the city officials
made him tear it apart ten times until he got
every little thing just to comply with the
city regulations. So you wouldn't do it i n
the city. You might do it outside the city.
As long as there aren't people complaining.
And then this would dispense with the ugly
rectangular monstrosity of the kitchen
sink; bathtubs wouldn't exist. All this
duplication wouldn't exist; it would save
space. It's got to be built to be a model to
do away with the ugly designs that now
surround us completely.
L: I think it is like art; as soon as there is a
model it's going to be duplicated and then
it becomes an industry. It's very difficult to
avoid that.
S: That's what I want: I would want them
to duplicate my ideas. But all that's
happened to me so far is that m y idea that I
never had doesn't register-and they
duplicate my icing. I know how just a thing
like the ugly design of kitchen sinks
destroyed my childhood . . . 'cause I had to
fight with my sister all the time over who
had to do the dishes. It was the ugliness,
the ugliness of capitalism , making it impos
sible for anybody to liVe a life that isn't
made ugly.
1.
ruler. And if people don't try
to m
"�''
start of getting along Without
authon le . .
�
they wi!! never be in a position
where tb ,
are not belng
·
worked Over b
'
h·'S 0i
�uthOrit ies. And so naturally
the
O '1
hke anarchy. We have never had
anarchk"
J
but we d. 0 IlaVe chaos. There's alwa
ys gOi " '
to be the government agents that a
' .
re gaUl .
to be throwmg
·
bombs, saying that th'
.
"
anarchists did it, to set up a reacti
on.
";
. '.
L: There are so many rulers nO i1iI
.·
Authority is everywhere.
' �.,.�
S: They're dreaming of more authority. i,;
!"
��.e.�
,.
���
J
�
L: I could do with a little more chaos;":
myself·
S: AU it is is an idea of gradually working
.
.
.
toward domg thmgs without authorities. '
Under an anarchist system you would.
phase authorities out slowly, as much as '
could be. That seems a fantasy, just
because iI's been so stamped out and
ridiculed. Until the twenties you could go
anywhere in the world without a passport.
But they want to put you in the frame of
mind where you accept more and more
authority. You just are required to go
through this ritual in which you give them
the right to teU you where I can go. And if
you don't, you'll be clapped in prison.
1.,: It is not easy to live in the way you want
S: Where did you grow up?
S: In the midwest. My father's family were
and not to suffer from il.
S: I don't mind a certain amount of
trouble. I can't take these exaggerated
doses of pasty Cheerfulness of capitalism in
which you have to be happy al! the time.
That can only prodUce a crust like Warhol.
I don't want to be too happy_ I don't want
extremes, I mean getting pinnacles of
happiness. I can', live with it. What goes
up must come down. I tried it. I waS" a pasty
celebrity, 1 was very fashionable ten years
ago . . this is being recorded?
L: Do you like that?
S: Yes, basically I'm an anarchist; that's
not to say that I think there will ever be any
state of anarchy. but I don't think that you
should stamp out anarchy . . . You need it to
flavor other ideas, because anarchy is the
giving part of politics. In this country they
have stamped it out, and made it a dirty
word, made it synonymous with chaos.
They want to tell you that's it's the same as
chaos. It isn't. AI! it means is without a
L: Yes.
S: (laughing) Wonderful. I was hoping it
was. 1 was very fashionable but I couldn't
live with it. f wilJ never, never go near any·
thing like that again. This was the golden
gift of Uncle Fishook to me.
Please let him
·
keep the blessings of pub!idty. 1 must say
that before that happened to me, I actually
believed like everybody else that I could not
continue to exi�( unless I got a glare of
publicity. You see, attention is a ba�ic
human need. It's terribly important. If the
hillbillies in West Virginia. They went to
the hills because they wanted to be more
independent in the first place, and then
they became more independent because
they were living in the hills. HiHbillies,
nomads, gypsies are natural anarchists.
baby doesn't get attention, it won't be fed.
L: If society makes you unhappy, then it
has won no matter what,
S: I don't think so, I can be happy from
being unhappy. if I know what I'm doing. I
mean I have to struggle against Uncle Fis
hook, that's my job, and I'm not running
away from it. Everybody else that has been
worked over by Uncle Fishook has just
faded out, folded up and creeped out of the
city, But I won't do that. Usually in life
nothing is ever clear cut. How many people
are lucky enough to have an archetypal
villain for an adversary.
L: You can
everywhere.
find
Uncle
Fishook
S: When an Uncle Fishook falls into your
life you have to fight it till the end. It's
been dropped into your life, it's not the
most glamorous problem, but it's been
given to you to struggle against. . . This is
something for me to do something real for
me to address myself to. You're telling me I
should forget it in order to be happy. I
don't like it, but what's the alternative?
I,: Do you know Nietzsche at all?
S: It's probably trash because. he was
jealous of Wagner. 1 don't like his attitude
toward Wagner. It was just the typical,
very mediocre attitude expressed in very
fancy language, but it was the very typical
Village Voice attitude toward anybody that
is making a success, but a success based
upon their need to transform somebody
into an object, and then sacrificing him.
L: Nietzsche defines a nihilist phase which
corresponds to what you call 'anarchist': to
question everything. There is a second
phase which is more interesting: Once
you've realized what everything is and how
it works, how it's going to repeat itself,
endlessly, you just step out Of it, and af
firm other, positive values, You don't
waste any more energy criticizing and
destroying.
S: Tell me what I am to do with the energy.
I'm supposed to rush into the turquoise
paradise of the Bahamas? After two days, 1
would be bored. I've got to have something
to hate.
L: Flaming Creature was about fun, not
denouncing.
S: 1 made a comedy. Now I want to make a
drama. The movie I'm now preparing is go
ing to be an Arabian Nights architecture
film and it will be in Super-8. 35 miJ1jmeter
is insanely wasteful. And it's never cleaned,
It gives me the horrors. Uncle Fishook rep
resents the idea of expectations from au
thority, which is also perfect for me since I
could spend the rest of my life demolishing
very happily. I can be happy in this way.
You couldn't, but it has just been my lot to
have to clean out the toilets. I mean that's
the job that's been inherited by me in life
and I have run away from it, I spent the last
fifteen years running away from it. No
body wants to open a can of worms, but
that's the thing that has been handed for
me to do. And maybe that's a part of all
bigtime manufacturers and capitalists, that
they're an Uncle Fishook. Maybe I've
found a key to them in some way from hav
ing to deal with the evil that's come into my
life,
Douglas Dunn
Jean-Fran�ois
Lyotard
interview
On the Strength
of the Weak
The story j intend to begin with tonight is tak
en from Aristotle, who tells us there once was a
o
rhetor, a lawyer, named Corax, who had a cef
ta-in techne, a certain ert, a certain skitl that Aris
totle describes thus: Someone, wh is Corax's
dient, is accused of brutalizing a victim. There
are two cases says Aristotle; in the first case the
client is vigorous, in the second case he is weak.
It the client is not strong Corax will argue that it
is not likely his weakly client maltreated anyone.
Very well, says Aristotle, Cor8x resorts to verisi
militude; a weakling is indeed unlikely to bruta
lize anyone. But in tile other case, if the client is
strong, Corax will plead that the accused was
quite aware that his stength made his indict�
ment likely; knowing that likelihood, he took
care not to commit any brutality, which proves
his innocence .
Aristotle objects that this use of verisimilitude
is improper to the extent that pure and simple
verisimilitude, likeliness in itself, is not resorted
to in this case; verisimilitude is used in a verisim
ilar way. In other words, the accused foresees
the likeliness and acts according to what he is
likely to be told. In this particular case, the likeli
hood is not pure since it is related to itself; it is
not considered absolutely. A difference should
be made between an absolute likelihood and
one which isn't, and Aristotle comes to the con
clusion that the substance of Corax's
tBehne,
the secret of his art, consisted in making the
weakest discourse the stronges1.1
I would like to show very rapidly that the im
portant thing is to devise schemes within the
discourse of the masters itself, the magisterial
discourse, and I intend to confine myself tonight
Sytvere LOTRINGER: You started danc*
jng with Merce CUnningham. What impact
do you think his training had on your
work?
Douglas DUNN: Dancing is automatically
self-expressive. The doer being present, he
can't help revealing - himself all the time.
But there are ways of focusing one's atten�
lion so as not to make that a primary can·
cern. What Meree Cunningham offered
was a body that wasn't in the act of
primarily expressing itself. Having done so,
much is opened that wasn't before.
Many dancers have been and stm are
busy expressing themselves. Nothing wrong
with that. But what Merce and .fohn (Cage)
did turned a corner. They outlined another
possibility, another area to work in. I think
of myself as working in that area.
What Merce offered was the performer
not telling you what he was thinking or
dancing about. It's that simple. It is not
simple ultimately, but in first definition it
is. It's like classical restraint. You pur
posely restrain in order to create something
other than yourself, a new or different
character. What Merce did was to restrain,
and then not create a character. You are
left with a person dancing.
It's hard to understand why people got,
still get, upset by this simple, concrete
image. r guess it's unfamiliar in the theatre
for someone to corne out "just dancing", I
liked it fight away because at the beginning
I wasn't interested in the theatre or in
performance. I just wanted to dance, to do
205
the movement. To sense it, yes, but not to
think about it, nor aim it anywhere. Later I
got confused, realizing that going on stage,
you become some kind of character for the
audience, and began to consider that.
to problems of discourse. What I am really inter
ested in, however, and maybe this can be done
at a later date, next week perhaps, is to find out,
by elucidating these small instruments of cun
ning, whether they can function in other fields
than discourse, and more specifically of course,
in the so-called "political field". My intention, if
intentions are to be declared; is thus a political
intention.
Assuming that wf' confine ourselves to prob
.!ems of discourse, the discourse of the master,
the magisterial discourse, essentially consists, I
believe, in an injunction concerning the very
function of discourse, according to which this
function can only be to say the Truth. What re
lation is there between such a requirement and
mastership? A truth-functional discourse, a dis
course of knowledge, must uncover, must pro·
duce, the conditions in which statements can be
characterized by a positive or negative "truth
value", must, if you prefer, determine its condi
tions of truth. The conditions of truth can only
be determined if some kind of a meta-discourse
exists within the magisterial discourse; that
meta-discourse
has
traditionally
been
the
philosophical discourse, it is the discourse of
.
L: Did you try to reintegrate character into
your work?
D: Indirectly. In Time Out and in Solo
Film & Dance I put on a variety of cos
tumes. I don't work consciously toward or
away from the $uggested characters, but I
think the costumes influence me inadver
tently. I haven't had any conscious under
standing of the nature of the characters I
become in my dances until the dances are
made and I've performed them for a while.
L; Are you looking for an element that
would in some way unify all the
movements?
D: Yes, in different pieces I pay more at·
tention to some elements than to others.
Paying more attention establishes a degree
of consciously determined clarity. Paying
less attention allows me to get out of my
logic in modern times. In other words, there is in
the first place what is said, and in the second
place what allows one to say it, Le. the dis
course concerning that which authorizes one to
say what one says. The magisterial discourse
clearly requires this split as its injunction, its in
tention, its project.
There is accordingly some sort of an intimida
tion in the discourse of the master, which con
sists in compelling us to recognize a number of
principles, Le. you must-your task is to-say
the Truth, be truthful; you must assume that the
conditions of that truth are not given, that they
are concealed, which means that they must be
elaborated, uncovered, worked out. That, as a
consequence, there is a lack of truth in ordinary
statements, in the statements of our daily life.
History is but-such is for example Augustine's
position-a struggle for the advent of Truth; the
function of politics is merely a pedagogical func
tion: its very essence consists in bringing about
the awareness which will allow us to differenti
ate true and false statements among the count
less utterances we are bombarded with every
day. The efficacy of language, in this perspec
tive, is always linked to truthfulness, that is, to
conviction, which is obtained by bringing the lis
tener to recollect the lost truth. There are, if you
will, a number of these injunctions; without
claiming that 1 have exhausted them, I would
like to stress that they are aU congruous, that
they aU point in the same direction, ultimately,
whether one be on a purely discursive level, or
at the political [evet, or at that of historical prax
is: they make truthfulness both the object and
the means of discourses.
I will add just one thing on that subject, name·
ly that the whole position of Marxist discourse is
Qetermined by this magisterial position, belongs
to it in its entirety. Thus . . . the schizo-culture
trend for instance, tries to avoid these injunc
tions, by externalizing itself. Considering not
only the discourses, but also the praxes of the
sixties, it can be said, very briefly, that the
general attempt was to stay outside the magis
terial injunction and to produce, under extreme
ly veried names, some sort of an exteriority:
spontaneity, libido, drive, energy, savagery,
madness, and perhaps schizo.
Now. that is exactly what the magisterial posi·
tion and discourse ask for. In other words, there
is a trick of the magisterial discourse, of the Oc
own way. In one section of Gestures in Red
my instructions are to work on a triangUlar
floor pattern, to hold my gaze on the
downstage apex, to articulate feet and
shoulders, not to turn more than ninety
degrees right or left. The simplicity of this
structure and the relatively low energy level
of the movement leave me room to deal
with that, and with something else also, the
image of another dancer perhaps. Not to
imitate him, but to hold the image of that
dancer in mind while dancing. Not thlit
others should or would see an image of the
other dancer, but I'm feeding off it. So by
mixing input I produce a dance image that
is not entirely consciously predetermined.
L: The original intentions are not what
matters?
D: Those are the originaL the only inten
tions: the structure. And they matter
absolutely. They are the means for making
the work, they keep me interested. And
they are calculated to produce a dance I
couldn't have imagined beforehand.
L: Do you try in any way to set the rela
tionship of your dance to the audience?
D: How can you make a dance for an
audience when its members are all different
and are going to read the same dance
differently? No, I focus my attention away
from what I think a given move or dance
might be for spectators. And that leaves
them free not to worry about my inten·
tions. We both relate to the object, the
image being produced, I as doer, they as
watchers, or perhaps as vicarious doers,
and there is no compulsion to agree on the
experience.
L: How much do you want your work to
be Structure?
D: I think of everything I do about a dance
as structure. By definition. Of course it is
possible to vary the timing of the decision
making process in relation to the perfOf"
mance: I'm interest. ed in the entire range,
frOill making decisions in performance, to
making them well in advance, deliberately,
and practicing the result.
cidenta! discourse if you will, there is a fuse of
L: Is it improvisation that keeps a dance
alive?
quiring that we place ourselves outside of it in
D: Nothing guarantees that. I have w� n�
defed if the considerable amount of chotcc
that discourse, which consists precisely in re
order to avoid it. The device is very simple, it
consists in making exteriority the necessary
complement of that discourse. And, I may add,
a complement to be conquered, an opaque zone
in which that discourse must penetrate in its
tum. When one externalizes oneself in order to
avoid the magisterial discourse, one is just
extending that position, nourishing it. I think
this is true of any critique since it always implies
the externa�zation of the criticizing position in
relation to the criticized position, which will
allow the latter to include the former as its
necessary complement. All sorts of transposi
tions can be made and you should have no dif�
ficulty in making them on the political,level.
Considering, for instance, what happened in
the workers' movement at the end of the nine
teenth century and at the beginning of the twen
tieth, during the first half of the twentieth, to
put it briefly, one will find that a movement
which theorized itself as being localized outside
capitalist society was precisely being sucked in
to that system. Now then, it seems to me that
the uneasiness, the distress which the radical
critical movements are experiencing today de.
rive to a great extent from the fact that this ex
teriority has practically, has in fact disappeared.
Thus, what we should devise is a strategy
which can dispense with exteriority, which, as
far as language is concerned, would not place it
self outside the rules of the discourse of Truth,
that is of the discourse of power,; but inside
those rules. And which instead of excluding
itself under the name of delirium, or madness, or
pathos in general, or whatever, would on the
contrary, play these rules-or rather the Rule of
aU these rules against itself by including the so
caned meta-statements in its own utterances.
And one would then see that our weakness ! l
don't really know who "we" is), can tap the
strength of power to neutralize it. That opera·
tion of counter-cunning, which would avoid ex
ternalization, would necessarily bear against the
essential element I mentioned earlier, namely
the exclusion of meta-statements, the exclusion
of the discourse on the conditions of truth. It
would bear against that exclusion, Le. it would
Simply consist in ensuring that there be no meta
statements. And this would be done in the most
immediate manner, not by denouncing that fact
that meta-statements are supported by that in
terest or another, this or that passion. (In trying
to demonstrate such an assertion, One is in ef
fect remaining i n the discourse of truth. Think
ing that such a demonstration can convince
amounts in fact to assuming that the efficacy of
a critical discourse is linked to conviction). That
available to the dancers in LazY Madge
helps keep them from looking as if they are
going through the motions of someone
else's dance. Making and presenting a
dance that has some liveliness to it may
depend on some kind of matching structure
with moment in the lives of the available
dancers. But since there is no recipe for
how to make such a match, it doesn't really
help to know that. You just try what feels
right, and see what happens. And if you
don't like the result. doing the opposite
next time can be just as wrong, everything
having changed by that time.
L: You want to be able to surprise
yourself?
D: Yes, as Merce pointed out, you have
two choices physically: either you throw
your body weight, upper first, and the legs
follow, or you motivate the travelling with
the legs. The latter offers more possibil
ities, as it leaves the torso, arms and head
free to do something else. I find I do a little
more swinging and catching than Merce
doe�. to surprise myself I guess, but
basically I feel at home with his idea of
being able to change the direction of the
movement at any moment, so that it is
unpredictable. I'm also interested in the
mental set. In most of Merce's work the
dancer knows what the body is supposed to
be doing; the surprise and unpredictability
are from the third person's point of view. I
want to know also how the performance
might look when the dancer doesn't know
what he is going to do next.
L: Does this require a different mental
attention?
D: Yes, and this is a primary interest right
now , to mix many possible attentions.
Doing set material you know well, some
you don't know that well. choosing be
tween five different elements, mixing them,
and making up your mind also to do what
you have never done before at this point in
the dance: that kind of layering. I saw
something like it in the de Kooning show.
Up close you see the various layers, how
many times he went at it. At a distance you
see not any one, but all of the layers
meshed.
L: In LazY Madge you introduced impro
visation into Merce's framework.
209
operation would thus consist not in displaying
the hidden presumptions of the masters' meta
statements, but in resorting to small instruments
of cunning within the- magisterial discourse
itself.
I wi!! now illustrate this point by turning back
to Corax's reehne, which Aristotle was bent on
denouncing. Aristotle protests against a second
level usage of Verisimilitude (he is describing the
different possibilities of operation inside the
discourse of verisimilitude in general, and more
particularly in rhetoric!, and denouncing a "Spe
cific aspect of Corax's teehne, he considers that
likelihood exists in itself, e.g. a strong individual
is likely to brutalize a victim. Such an assump
tion is likely in itself, but when Corax says that
his client knows likelihood is against him, that it
accuses him on account of his strength and that
he refrained from any brutality for that very rea
son, one is no longer in the sphere of likelihood
in itself but in that of relative likelihood. Relative
in relation to what? In relation to likelihood. In
other words, Corax's client is someone who ut
ters the following type of statements: "It is likely
that I will be accused of committing the of
fense" . His conduct thus includes beforehand
the effects of the law of verisimilitude and ac
cordingly circumvents that law. The client re
sorts to a second level likelihood, which implies
that the first type of likelihood, Le. likelihood as
such, is never irrelative, is never absoll/te, since
any absolute, any irrelative can always be relat
ed at least to itself.
You can thus see that in t�is operation on
which Corax bases his whole techne, a very im
portant logical and assuredly political asset is at
D: Yes, I mixed the two. I made set bits,
then let go o f the order in performance. If I
don't want to dance with someone on a
given evening, I don't have to. I simply
avoid the material that involves that per
son. So emotion enters into the formality
of the piece as a possible basis for choice.
The piece has extreme limits. It would be
within the rules, for example, if no one
entered the performance area at all. But
these people like to dance together, so there
are other factors operating along with the
rules. Not knowing what use we will make
of the materia! when we go to perform sets
up an atmosphere different from that
surrounding a linearly ordered work.
L: How can you control or modulate emo
tionality if you open the piece to such an
extent?
D: I control it by not controlling it. In the
other piece I'm working on now, Rille, I'm
taking a different approach, setting almost
everything, including the order. But I'm
still not making what I would call effects.
That is, I'm not filling out some idea about
haw I think the dance should come across
to some imagined audience person. I work
from the inside out, to the structure, from
there back, to the dancing itself, ignoring
as much as possible the signs that pop up
along the way telling me what it ought to
look or feel like. I work with the structure,
it feels like something, I work with the
structure.
stake, which is that no irrelative position exists;
one cannot say: "such is verisimilitude in abso
!ute terms", since absolute verisimilitude can �e
related to itself, producing· the very oppOSite of
what was
expected.
Absolute
verisimilitude
does accuse the client, but when related to itself
it exculpates him. Such is the reason Underlying
Aristotle's protestation, for he clearly under
stands (he was very clever) that there, behind
that teeny weeny matter, something extremely
important is at stake. Indeed, to the extent that
the master, the judge in this particular case,
bases his argument on verisimilitude� on the
existence of likelihoods that are truer than
others�in order to assert that a Strong individ
ual is "more really likely" to brutalize a victim, I
can play verisimilitude against itself so as to dis
solve its absoluteness. And the effects are re
versed.
. . As you can see, this is a very signifi·
cant matter, a very serious Ol"le.
L: There is definitely an abstract quality in
your work. The geometric impUlse,
though, seemed much stronger in your
earlier pieces.
D: Yes, 101, the stilI piece, was rather geo
metric, as were some parts of Four for
Nothing, Time Out and One Thing Leads
to Another.
L: What is the function of geometry?
D: It's a starting point, 1 suppose, some
thing to go away from, something to con
tain and balance other elements. In LazY
Madge there's hardly any. I broke it by
turning· over the shape of the piece to the
decision-making of the dancers. In Rille it
is present quite consciollsly, as a ground
against which to consider density.
210
You have all understood that, in this example,
the client who is strong is precisely the weak
one; t mean to say that his position is weak as a
direct consequence of his strength. Something
which points in the same direction is the para·
dOl( of the liar, which consists in saying: "If you
say you are tying, and if you are in fact lying,
then you are telling the truth, etc" . Many at·
tempts have been made to refute this paradox;
Russell, for instance, tried to establish that there
are two types of statements-such is precisely
the distinction I was making earlier between
statements and meta-statements, And Russell
claims to solve the paradox by forbidding us to
mix, to blend statements of the first type and of
the second one: There is meta-discourse, and
the effects of discourse should not be trans·
ferred to the meta-discourse. But why is this
transfer prohibited? Russell's answer is simply
that if you do rely on such an operation, then no
discourse of truth remains possible.
In other
words, Russell's refutation is not a refutation, it
is nothing more than the magisterial decision it
self, i.e. my meta·statements are not in the
same class as ordinary statements. Thus. the
paradox of the liar, which is irrefutable since it
cannot be controverted without being departed
from, implies that there is no discourse of truth
and accordingly the function of discourse is
completely diverted inasmuch as it will always
be impossible to decide whether a statement is
true or false.
Another story concerns a Sophist named Pro
tagoras. Protagoras asks his disciple. Euathlus,
to pay him his fees. The latter answers him in
the following terms: You haven't made me win a
single cause, you have helped me gain no vic
tory in discourses, therefore r owe you nothing.
And Protagoras retorts: There is something you
owe me in any case; you owe me the money, for
if I win you must pay me and if you win you
must also pay me. The debate Protagoras is re·
ferring to is not that which the disciple is think:
lng of. Euathlus is in fact thinking of the debates
he participated in, which he lost. Protagoras, on
the other hand, is talking about the current de
bate between himself and his disciple and he
states: This debate has come to a conclUSion;
either you win or I do. Should you win, you
would have to pay me since our contract stipu
lates that the omtor's disciple is to pay his mas
ter when he gains a victory. And should 1 be the
winner, that is should you, my pupil, be the
loser, then you would also have to pay, since in
a judicial debate the loser pays. All of this is per
fectly correct.
L: How do you go about making a piece
where the movement is fixed and the
choices unlimited, as in Lazy Madge?
D: First I made solos for each of the-
dancers, and asked them to dance them
simultaneously. They had to look out for
each other. It was like the street, people
with different intentions whose paths
crossed at times. And then if there was nc{
one in the way they could dance the move:.:
ment as wen as they knew how, but alway§
with an eye to traffic problems. Then I
went on to make duets, trios, etc. allowing
the dancers to choose from the material
during performance, down to the minutest
fragment. We rehearsed the bits in their
original form, as duets, trios, and so on,
but in performance we let go of that.
I had made some rules before I began: I
couldn't work out of the presence of the
person who was to do the movement I was
making; I couldn't set my own material
except where it involved partnering; new
material was to be performable as soon as
it was learned and could be repeated. This
last has to do with the piece being con
ceived as a project. For two years I've
made new material, we've rehearsed the
old, and performed whenever there's been
an opportunity. So in a given performance
we arc using newty made, little rehearsed
materials, as well as earlier, mOfe familiar
moves.
Also, J don't set rehearsal time. I'm
available for so many hours a day, people
come when they can or want to. I am inter
ested i n accommodating their various
schedules, and in disallowing theif using
me as an aUlhoflly figure to prime their
wills.
In all, as a group, we have about eight
hours of material available to us. We
usually perform one hour and ten minutes,
without a break. You dance along, and
someone says "time," or the lights go out.
L: The situation you created seems fluid
enough to allow any kind of movement. Do
you feel that at this point classical elements
can be introduced and juxtaposed to . the
rest without inconvenience?
D: By working only in the presence of the
person who is going to do the movement
I'm making, I leave myself open to that
person's in!1uence, and diminish overall
considerations of style. The dancers are
211
Protagoras considers his relationship with Eu
athlus in one instance as being of a magisterial
nature, and i n another instance as being antago--
nistic, which implies an important thing, Le. that
there can be no school, because the character
istics of a school-and I hope there will never be
a schizo school- is that a certain type of dis
course exists, which I shall call protected. If the
'pupil, the disciple, holds such a discourse out·
side the school, and if he fails, if therefore he
does not gain an outside victory, it willbe said,
in a magisterial relationship, that his training is
insufficient, that he should follow more courses,
proceed with his studies, that he should be re
trained, etc., but the blame for the adverse situ
ation the pupil experiences wi!! not be put on the
relationship with the master; on the contrary,
what Protagoras says is that "this adverse rela
p
tionship permeates our magisterial relationship,
and you are also my enemy." Another as ect of
matter also deserves to be noted, which is
that Protagoras' paradox consists in the same
operation of inclusion as the paradox of the liar.
When Euathlus says: I have never won a cause,
consequently l owe you nothing, what is he talk
ing about? He's talking about debates which are
external to his relationship with the master.
Protagoras on the other hand includes the
debate he is now engaged in with his disciple in
the same category as those external debates.
Thus, in this case as well, there is a refusal to
consider any debate held inside the schools as
different one from another, as dancers and
as people, and I don't work against these
differences. It's a tacit collaboration. The
common ground between us, aside from
our desire to work together, is that each of
us has at least some exposure to Merce's
work. This guarantees an open and non
analytical attitude to the process of
learning and repeating movement.
L: You seem to stay clear both from
expressivity and formality, or rather to
involve the dramatic element to such a
degree that it feeds the more abstract aspect
of your work. Do you see it that way?
D: Well, I would say that a� the sixties fall
behind us, an explicitly formalistic ap
proach feels to me no less didactic than an
explicitly expressIve one.
D: Jokes are an obvious kind of perform¥
ance, not very surprising. Their suspense is
familiar. They constitute what I referred to
before as making effects. You try to make
the audience laugh. to manipulate them as
a group. For their own pleasure, of course.
You can't do this without a fair number of
already shared assumptions. Such a situa
tion precludes the more personal, intimate,
confusing experience I associate with
looking at art. Buster Keaton's films work
PEE�LESS H A N D C U FF.
212
some sort of a mets-debate; the current debate
falls
under the same category as aU other
debates.
The position of magisterial discourse requires
a protection against external debates, it implies
that we confine ourselves to a region of dis�
course, which is simultaneously a social region,
W",ight. II oune...
'" , k�1 I'btcti CH 1,)"", ,�ec1
5 1 0 00
No. 200 ,
To- Pooh1. Loci: H..... emh
into which the external debates cannot pene
trate. The only permissible debates will be those
concerning external debates. Such is the very
foundation of the school, which is after aU one
of the aspects of the magisterial relationship.
In this paradox, Protagoras considers Euath
Ius as an opponent if he loses, and as his disc'ipfe
jf he winS. Euathlus has no identity, he can be
Plated, $'1 \1\1
identified neither as an adversary nor as a disci
ple, which implies that P'rotagoras already re
jects an entire logic or predication or substantial
definition. Euathlus has no properties. More
over, one finds in Protagoras's paradox the
inclusion of the future in the present. Indeed,
Protagoras argues against his disciple by in
cluding its outcome in the ongOing debate and
saying: If you lose- jf you will lose as they say in
'
Turkish�then you shaH pay and if you will win,
then you shall also pay. And that inclusion of
the future is worked out in the manner of a paro
No 2(}Z
To...., Doub1. J....od. H.,,,!: Cd.
For J H ....,u
dy, for the discourse Protagoras holds with rfl
spect to his disciple is precisely the parody of
the magisterial discourse: the master already
knows what the outcome is going to be. In
short, the future is included not in the form of a
contingency, but as being identical to itself. The
master has control over this future. It is a parody
of the magisterial discourse precisely to the ex"
tent that Protagoras actually considers that Eu
athlus has no contingent future. He has no fu
ture, Le. he shaU pay in any case, which is
exactly the position of Capital with respect to
any one of us: whether one wins or loses, one
Plated. $ 1 1 00
"-.lIb,
No. ZQl
Lod: Drt.ctJ...
Han,kufh
Double
has to pay. All of this does not mean that Pro
tagoras is in a strong position, and whereas I
said earlier that in Corax's case, the accused
who is strong is precisely the weakest insofar as
verisimilitude is against him, in Protagotas' case
the master is the weak one, for he risks not be
ing paid, and fot a Sophist this is very serious,
since Sophists coUect no ground rent as philos
ophers do, they aren't civil servantS, they are
artists, they are paid on a piece-work basis, after
each job, each performance.
Plated only
'7.00
No. 204
CIWD Hand Cd..,
Dtench.bI. Corn-.)01\4
There afe many similar stories and I think we
should analyze them carefully for it is not sure at
all that they aU refer to the same cunning de
vices; some of them could very well be based on
other devices, but it seems to me that three or
Plat"" only
.
RON POCK
L E A T H E R H A N DC U F f' A N D LEG !
revent. n
Convenj�n� to UO t '1' �"try cloy <>r '''' i\",rn�y--P
\., iTO
,
a..nd 11...&, loMt.hu poeketM lor UtY .trl� 0-/ b.w>dC...t£1 0'1'
-
213
four such examples are sufficient to outline a
position of discourse which is curious enough in
relation to the magisterial position; the former
position may very well invest the latter, and that
is why I chose the example of Protagoras, who
is in principle the student's master. What strikes
me however is that Protagoras resorts to a rea·
soning which cannot
be
that of a master but
which points to a discourse other than the Pla
tonic, Of the magisterial discourse in general
{from Plato to Marx) whose position is in fact al·
ways the same. It seems to me something else is
arising here, insofar at least as the trade of the
intellectual is concerned�which isn't aU that
different from other trades; new weapons are
appearing, very small weapons, but very impor.
tant I believe, and very serious. These very weak
weapons do however have the power of upset
ting, be it for a fleeting instant (but that is ir
relevant here, since the aim is not to .obtain
cumulative effects), of unsettling the magisterial
position and the assumptions underlying it. Le.
the belief in the existence of a meta-discourse,
of an 'order within which discourses, and prac
tices as we!! of course, can be grounded and
substantiated.
We should therefore continue to explore
these paradoxes, called paradoxes because one
did not know what to do with them, and which
have been expunged, destroyed, like the works
of Protagoras himself. What is involved here is a
possible position of discourse which has effec
tively been obliterated in its entirety and which
can afford us new weapons. I beHeve it would
be interesting to find out what effects these
weapons can produce in the political order; this
is roughly what I wanted to say tonight. I shall
just make one more remark in that connexion,
which is that we should imagine new praxes and
notably practices of discourse and political prac
tices, which would not be articulated around the
idea of a reinforcement through organization or
an efficiency through conviction, The idea that a
radical polltica\ efficacy does not rest on truth
fulness deserves consideration.
The Question we should raise concerns the
possibility of producing politica! efficiency not at
all by linking it to the belief in Truth, but rather
by developing it in the direction of a relativism,
in the strong, general sense of the term, that is
by accelerating the decline of the idea of truth,
by contributing to its deterioration. This cannot
be done by setting a new truth against the old
one, which is of no moment, regardless
of the
name of that new truth. It would be much more
interesting to imagine, in my opinion, a political
for me because the deadpan attitude creates
a separate continuity: something else is
happening along with the dramatic rise and
fall of the gag. A potent sadness for
example. I don't try for humour in my
work, any more than for any other effect.
Still, I get some kicks.
L: Is walking in the street close to your
idea of what dance now is about?
D: As an analogy, yes, somehow related to
the work I do in LazY Madge. The mix of,
on the one hand, orderliness, the streets,
stop lights, traffic laws, etc., and, on the
other hand, complexity, all those separate
intentions finding their way in and around
each other, on foot and in vehicles. I find
that an interesting image. It is fantastically
magnified in the films of Rudy Burckhardt.
L: Do yon feel affinities with other
dancers or choreographers?
0: As I get more involved in what Pm
doing, my projections on other dancers and
choreographers fade out. Now I can watch
dance for pleasure.
214
efficiency whose aim would not be to convince,
but which would rather seek discontinuous local
effects which could disappear and would not
bring about the adherence of those who witness
them. Rather it would bring about something
else which would be neither trust nor mistrust.
something we could call tragic, etc., which
would however be more like humor I believe
!there being no incompatibility between these
two terms!, It seems to me something of that
sort is happening now; such is undoubtedly the
case as far as some of the events happening in
France are concerned at any rate, although ! am
not yet quite capable of elaborating on this argu
ment. I could give you as an example, without
committing myself, a movement of the prosti
tutes which developed in France this year.
At first sight this movement appeared to be
one aimed at pushing demands: "We are wOfk�
ers, we want decent working conditions, etc.,"
but this discourse simultaneously implied some
thing else, which in fact unsettled the relation of
society to the feminine body, and even to desire
in general. What it said was: "If you accept the
existence of different kinds oftrades and if you
consider that the motivations underlying their
practice are good, are acceptable, then accept
our motivation as well, Le. the desire for prosti
tution. Now, this problem is extremely serious,
and I believe a typically political modern action is
involved here: it is punctual, it bears upon the
inclusion of the desire for prostitution in the
same class as all·other desires.
. and it func
tions, it seems to me, in the direction not of a
distrust, but in that of the destruction of the be
lief in the existence of good and bad desires.
Practices of this type are operative not on ac
count of their revealing a new truth, but insofar
as they destroy meta-discourses in specific plac
es. And what this means basically, is that such a
politics is no longer centered around the ques
tion of a pedaijogy, which has always been the
case, for politics has always been pedagogical.
Thus, we should no longer say: "we shaH gain
victory, we shall grow stronger if we manage to
awaken the truth which is alienated, concealed,
repressed, etc."; Protagoras doesn't give a rap
about Euathlus' conviction, such are not the
terms the efficiency of
his
action
can be
measured in.
Translated by Roger McKeon
1. Aristotle, Rhetorica, book 1l.24, 1 402 a 3 &
17. The works of Aristotle, Oxford University
Press, 1971, vol. Xl, translated by W. Rhys
Roberts.
�'l't'
the II
" " " '" '" J'F/'"
IISL"
't! Oft
I I,.. .
.
· · ·
Ie vour own
j
tewehy.
! without the IllkL gold ring to hold together drfSles. ·
hilill to create a penrlant.
l E T Y O U R IMAGINATlO1
"lIP'
The 'PUNK ' 5
dlSt;nct.ve 'P'
t., 14k!. gold.
PO
·
t"\
V'cfot- \C\.
e bOOY
i h \ ls
w/' " w4 sct
r o l i� o . J
(t'l l> -t- r� s c Lt0
+- 1,., & '1.
/s
!
.
.
" . .
""
i
iav tJP tl te-t\eT' -f�'"
A cC\d �my
> "' Oi L
fC:'
> ,'
�,'
'
>
.. . .
. : � .:. W� i�
}JA'2�
I
\ (\
+ � e-
q�,
, LIT n t..
0 '1
�
de s -tZ+\.A.+ \ n . :
'.� \.eli!'\'- \�t
f
0
----
b�
m
, :>:' ' , ,', '
-I-
Wl\S-
-\-h�
" :
,', " ''>''i' ::''':':'i
� <:�\'"�t�,j' ;
semiotext�
220
Back Issues Available
ALTERNATIVES IN SEMIOTICS,
r, 1 , 1974,
out a/print
THE TWO SAUSSURES, 1 , 2, 1974.
out o[prinf
EGO TRAPS, I, 3 , 1975.
out a/print
SAUSSVRE'$ ANAGRAMS: Jean Starobinski, Pour introduire au col
!oque: SyJvere Lotringer, Flagrant Delire; Michael Riffaterre, Paragramme
et signifiance; Luce Irigaray, Le Schizophrene el fa questioll du signe:
Wladyslaw Godzich, Nom propre: Langage/Textr, Gerard Bucher, Semi
oloKie et Ilon-savoir; Michel Picrssens. La Tour de Babil; 5ylverc LOlringer,
Le 'Complexe ' de Saussure; Ferdinand de Saussure, Deux Cahiers inedits
sur Virgile.
Volume fl, Number 1 , 1975.
$2.50
GEORGES BATAILLE: Denis Hollier, Presentation?; Georges Bataille,
Hemingway in the Light o[Hegel; La Venus de Lespugue; Jacques Derrida,
A Hegelianism Without Reserves� Ann Smock and Phyllis Zuckerman,
Politics and Eroticism in Le Bleu du ciel; Charles Larmore, Balaille :v
Heterology ; Peter B . Kussel, From the Anus to the Moufh to the Eye; Lee
Hildreth, Bibliography.
Volume II, Number 2, 1976 .
$3,00
ANTI-OEDIPUS: Antonin Artaud, 771e Body is the Body; To Have Done
with the Judgment of God; Gilles Deleuze, 771ree Group Problems; I Have
Nothing to Admit; Deleuze/Guattari, Desiring-Machines; One or Several
Wolves; Jacques Danze!ot, An Ami"Sociology; Felix Guattari, Mary
Barnes' Trip; Freudo-Marxism; Psychoanalysis and Schizoanalysis; FJlery
body Wants to Be a FaScist; Guy Hocquenghem, Family, Capifalism,
Anus; Sylvere LaUinger, Libido Unbound; The Fiction of Analysis;
Jean-Frantiois Lyotard, Energumen Capitalism ; lohn Rajchman, Allalysis
in Power.
$3.50
Volume II, Number 3, 1977 .
NIETZSCHE'S RETURN: Deleuze,.Lyotard. Foucault, Bataille,
Derrida, etc. Vol. I l l , No. I: $3.00
F'orthcoming Issues
SCBIZO-CULTURE 2
Snecial Editor; Syivere Lotringer
POLYSEXUALITY
Special Editor: Frallt,:ois Peraldi
PIER PA OLO PA SOUNI
Special Editor: B. Allen Levine
221
A SECOND CALL TO
POLYSEXUALITY
Neither angel nor animal- no Christian morality
Neither man nor woman - no biological sexuality
Neither husband nor wife- no legal sexuality
We are looking for:
Anything that can break apart bipolar sexuality, that can
lead to other modes of pleasure and their multiplication.
Recipes: for example, how can two men, three women, a hammer, an apple and
a turkey make love together!
Tools of ecstasyI from boots to letters.
Axes of ecstasy, from dry to moist. from soft to hard . . .
Spaces of ecstasy: where can we come? Between razor and revolver . . . between
hammer and anviL . . between doors . . . between currents?
A new way of mapping out erotic space, cities, countries, bodies.
An erotic anatomy of the bodyI an anatomical physiology of the erotic body.
Write us, contact us, help us to open the space of polysexualities.
Special Editor:
Frant;:ois Peraldi
CREDITS FOR VISUALS
Front cover: Kathryn Bigelow-Back cover: Kathryn Bigelow and Denise Green-Cover
pictures: Michael Oblowitz-p.2: Christopher Knowles-p.B: Howard Buchwald-p. 1 8:
Michael Oblowitz, Mr. Police (Mr. Universe Contest, N.Y. 1978)-p.24: Christopher
Knowles-p.2S: Computer Printout-p.30: Jimmy De Sana, from forthcoming book,
Deviants-p .32: James Holmstrom-p.39: Transeditions-p,41: Los Angeles Times (Sir
han Sirhan, Unidentified man and woman in Ambassador Hotel, Henry Luce)-p,42:
International Terrorist Times (Patty Hearst)-p.43: Michael Oblowitz, from forthcoming
book, Blind Eye-p.47: Digne Meller Marcovitz-p.SO: Jimmy De Sana op. cit.-p.S4:
Ken Kobland (The Shaggy Dog Animation)-p.57: Johan Elbers (Shaggy Dog)-p .64:
Michael Oblowitz, op. cit -p 76 80: martine Barrat-p.95: Martim Avilez-p.97: Mia
p.99: Musee de L'Homme, Paris, Excision-p.102: Jimmy De Sana, op. cit.-p . 1 1 3 :
Diane Arbus, TaUoed Man a t a Carnival, Md. 1970 (Photo cropped and retouched by
MOMA)-p.I44: ITT (Andreas Bader)-p. 1 l 5 : ITT (Ulrike Meinhof)-p.IS2-3: Trans
editions-p.ISS: Drawing by a ghetto child (Courtesy Martine Barrat)-p. l S8 : Mapping
by young "Schizophrenics" (Deligny)-p.163: General Motors. Express Highways (N. Y.
Fair, 1939-40)-p. l 69: Arturo SChwartz-p.21 l : Jackson Pollock, The She� Wolf, 1943
(MOMA)p.215-19: Christopher Knowles.
,
.
.
-
Next
iSllte
Schizo
culture
Vlt. Accond
Aatonln an.. ., "
DIe,. Cortel
Michel Fo",*ult "
�
Jeny Grotow.k�"
'.Ib _
, ,' ,
....... D. ...I..
yyonnt ....r.
'
Anti ...re.
It will change your life.