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Virtua Fighter 3. What a badass game!

H

HueyFreeman

Banned
All Virtua Fighter necrombumps are viable necrobumps.

VF3 has always been the low point in the series for me - something about the introduction of multilevelled arenas just didnt' jive with the combat - but man did the arcade version fucking blow me away when it released. I'd just sit and watch the computer cycle matches to check out the environments. They really stepped up Jacky's leather too, which is always good.
 
A

AmyS

Member
Oemenia said:
VF3 looked way better than Tekken 3 IMO.
Click to expand...

Of course it did.

VF3 ran on the highest-end board ever made for arcades at the time (Model 3) while Tekken 3 ran on a 1.5x overclocked PS1 based board (System 12). There's no comparison.

Before its release in arcades, there were rumors Tekken 3 was going to run on a Namco "System 33" board with a MIPS CPU and 4x PowerVR chips cranking out 2M polys/sec but that never came to pass, even if Namco was toying with the idea.
 
A

AmyS

Member
bronzodiriace said:
Looking at AOU trailer I think that the characters were better than the final result (poly count for example)

Am i wrong?
Click to expand...

You are probably not wrong. The AOU '96 real-time demo certainly had some effects in the backgrounds that never made it into the final VF3 game, and I wouldn't doubt that the poly count in the character models may have been slightly higher in the demo trailer.

Slightly off-topic but the VF2 port for PlayStation 2 in Japan (Sega Ages 2500 series Vol. 16) was not quite Model 2 perfect. Everything looks washed out and the texture quality is lower than Model 2, even though all the polys seem to be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUSTVd8Sw8

The XBLA / PSN VF2 is perfect though, although much higher res (1080p). Plus you can select between VF2 and VF2.1.


What we are really missing are perfect ports of:
Model 3: VF3 / VF3 Team Battle
NAOMI 2: VF4 / VF4 Evolution / VF4 Final Tuned.

I'm not aware of the differences between Sega LINDBERGH arcade Virtua Fighter 5 (original release) to 360 / PS3 but I know SEGA said it was easier to port LINDBERGH games such as VF5, After Burner Climax (and The House of the Dead 4) to PS3 because they both use Nvidia GPUs. Meaning the NV40 / GTX 6800 series in LINDBERGH to PS3's NV47 based RSX.
 
SegaManAU

SegaManAU

Gold Member
VF3 is still my favourite.

When it was released in the arcades I couldn't stop playing. Still hoping for a XBLA HD release but I doubt it!
 
L

Lindsay

Dot Hacked
VF3 got a home console port? It felt like they went straight from VF2/FM to VF4. I guess I really was playing almost nothing but PSO in that era x.x

What's the Team Battle stuff all about?
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Lindsay said:
VF3 got a home console port? It felt like they went straight from VF2/FM to VF4. I guess I really was playing almost nothing but PSO in that era x.x

What's the Team Battle stuff all about?
Click to expand...
like KOF, you pick a team of 3 characters and you face off against another team. it was cool, but I usually just picked 3 Akira's, though now I'm trying Akira/Lau/Kage

Timedog said:
The graphics were amazing but Virtua Fighter 2 had way better gameplay.
Click to expand...
explain pls
 
A

AmyS

Member
Lindsay said:
VF3 got a home console port? It felt like they went straight from VF2/FM to VF4. I guess I really was playing almost nothing but PSO in that era x.x

What's the Team Battle stuff all about?
Click to expand...


Virtua Fighter 3 hit arcades in late 1996.

Virtua Fighter 3 Team Battle (VF3tb) was a revision of VF3 for arcades on the same Model 3 Step 1.0 board as the original, and released in arcades in 1997.

It was this version that was ported to Dreamcast in 1998 for the Japanese launch (Nov '98) and it came with a 2nd disk, Project Berkley (some CG stuff, artwork, Yu Suzuki interview, etc). Project Berkley was the official project name for Shenmue.

VF3tb on Dreamcast in North America was intended for the 9/9/99 launch but got delayed a month or so, as did Sega Rally 2.

Virtua Fighter 3tb

(Team Battle) is an update version of Virtua Fighter 3, that featured battles between teams of various fighters, one after another is defeated. This "team battle" version was later released on Sega's Dreamcast console, being one of its launch games, becoming one of the best-selling Dreamcast games in Japan. Virtua Fighter 3 was intended to be a launch title for the Dreamcast in North America, but it was delayed. Although it did eventually come to North America, it wasn't nearly as successful as it was in Japan.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtua_Fighter_3

The Dreamcast version of VF3tb was handled by Genki and was a rush job on then-new hardware. The polygon count of the character models was reduced somewhat. It was 80-90 % perfect. I'm sure a near-perfect (95% ?) port could've been done with more time, especially if AM2 handled it themselves instead of Genki.
 
G

gelf

Member
Yeah if AM2 had handled the conversion themselves it probably would have been near perfect. Dreamcast would have been easy mode after the incredible work they did on Saturn Virtua Fighter 2. Shame it got farmed out.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
As a kid, I saw VF3 at my local arcade, and its graphic blew my mind at the time as they were even better than the PSX's.
 
the androgyne

the androgyne

Member
It's really strange that AM2 never handled the port, considering they were widely thought to be doing a Saturn version back then. I still wish one of these days Yu Suzuki would talk a little bit more about that version... i read he doesn't like to since Sega made them scrap all their work close to release... but that may just be hearsay.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
gelf said:
Yeah if AM2 had handled the conversion themselves it probably would have been near perfect. Dreamcast would have been easy mode after the incredible work they did on Saturn Virtua Fighter 2. Shame it got farmed out.
Click to expand...
the real shame of DC VF3tb was that shit controller! my god, I can't do anything, and K+G and P+K+G aren't mapped to the shoulders by default?? whaaaat??
the androgyne said:
It's really strange that AM2 never handled the port, considering they were widely thought to be doing a Saturn version back then. I still wish one of these days Yu Suzuki would talk a little bit more about that version... i read he doesn't like to since Sega made them scrap all their work close to release... but that may just be hearsay.
Click to expand...
I'd kill for a beta Saturn vf3 but we'll probably never see what it looked like. fighters megamix used the VF3 incarnations of its virtua roster so that's likely the best we'll get!
 
celsowmbr

celsowmbr

Banned
I remember read about VF 3 saturn version with memory cart (same for resident evil 2 and tomb raider 2)...maybe a saturn killer app? who knows...
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Timu said:
I need to play this game as I think it's the only main VF game I haven't touched yet.
Click to expand...
try your luck with emulation, otherwise I wouldn't recommend playing the DC ver without some kind of adapter for a better controller
 
S

See You Next Wednesday

Banned
AmyS said:
Really wanting perfect ports of Virtua Fighter 3 and Virtua Fighter 4.


Cwk7oIn.jpg
Click to expand...

Virtua Fighter 4 Arcade is still the best looking version of VF graphically right?
PS2 was way downgraded.
VF5 added an ugly plastic sheen to the high res textures of the VF4 arcade game.
 
S

Sho Nuff

Banned
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS THREAD.

I HAVE THIS IN MY HOUSE.

09012010_001-copy.jpg


I bought the Astro City cabinet when I lived in Japan for the sole purpose of playing arcade VF2. It took me about 10 years to finally get a working VF3 + adapter harness (requires external power supply + audio amp, huge pain in the ass) but now I am rocking this game HARD all the time. It's a masterpiece.

A while back my buddy Airthrow (who did the wiring to get this bastard running) hooked up the Model 3 to his PC's RGB capture board and we got some decent quality video out of it. There's still some really weird ghosting there we haven't figured out yet, but I don't think there's a lot of direct-feed video of this on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXrNoddxUbo

We did an extensive capture session where we took a ton of footage from the arcade version and then a ton of footage from the Dreamcast one (running through the same capture board). I think the final verdict was that Dreamcast was actually running the same geometry, but the textures were cut way back, and there might have been issues with the character rigging on Dreamcast, but I can't quite remember. (I fully realize about 3 people in the world still care about this.)
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Sho Nuff said:
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS THREAD.

I HAVE THIS IN MY HOUSE.

09012010_001-copy.jpg


I bought the Astro City cabinet when I lived in Japan for the sole purpose of playing arcade VF2. It took me about 10 years to finally get a working VF3 + adapter harness (requires external power supply + audio amp, huge pain in the ass) but now I am rocking this game HARD all the time. It's a masterpiece.

A while back my buddy Airthrow (who did the wiring to get this bastard running) hooked up the Model 3 to his PC's RGB capture board and we got some decent quality video out of it. There's still some really weird ghosting there we haven't figured out yet, but I don't think there's a lot of direct-feed video of this on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXrNoddxUbo

We did an extensive capture session where we took a ton of footage from the arcade version and then a ton of footage from the Dreamcast one (running through the same capture board). I think the final verdict was that Dreamcast was actually running the same geometry, but the textures were cut way back, and there might have been issues with the character rigging on Dreamcast, but I can't quite remember. (I fully realize about 3 people in the world still care about this.)
Click to expand...
how difficult was it exactly and what problems did you run into getting this game running? I'm hunting 3tb pcbs with the intention of putting one in my cab.
 
E

Emperor Bohe

Member
Sho Nuff said:
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS THREAD.

I HAVE THIS IN MY HOUSE.

09012010_001-copy.jpg


I bought the Astro City cabinet when I lived in Japan for the sole purpose of playing arcade VF2. It took me about 10 years to finally get a working VF3 + adapter harness (requires external power supply + audio amp, huge pain in the ass) but now I am rocking this game HARD all the time. It's a masterpiece.

A while back my buddy Airthrow (who did the wiring to get this bastard running) hooked up the Model 3 to his PC's RGB capture board and we got some decent quality video out of it. There's still some really weird ghosting there we haven't figured out yet, but I don't think there's a lot of direct-feed video of this on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXrNoddxUbo

We did an extensive capture session where we took a ton of footage from the arcade version and then a ton of footage from the Dreamcast one (running through the same capture board). I think the final verdict was that Dreamcast was actually running the same geometry, but the textures were cut way back, and there might have been issues with the character rigging on Dreamcast, but I can't quite remember. (I fully realize about 3 people in the world still care about this.)
Click to expand...

Good shit
 
S

Sho Nuff

Banned
Oneida, here are the biggest problems you must conquer:

-- Medium res monitor. Not a problem if you have an Astro/Versus City cab, but I have to reach back into the DEATH ZONE of my monitor to switch it to Medium res mode if I'm playing any Low/High res games. (Because it's medium res, 496x384 at 24khz, it won't work on a Super Gun.)

-- Power. It needs separate 5V and 3.3V inputs IIRC. Wound up getting a vintage power supply off of eBay. I THINK THE INTERNET SCHEMATICS FOR THE POWER ARE WRONG/REVERSED, but I'm not sure. It was a bitch to get working and you can't feed it 5V off JAMMA, it's way too picky.

-- Audio. It needs an amplifier, which will also need power. Ffffffff.

-- Harness. It's something like six different connectors coming out of the filter board on the back of the Model 3 and it's a god damn mess. Some of the connectors are the same from Model 2 (RGB video) but others are totally different, so it's not like you can use your existing Model 2 -- > JAMMA converter.

-- Kick harness. You need to pull the fourth button (evade) from somewhere on the filter board. For the first 3 months I had this running I said fuckit and didn't even bother. It works now though.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you find a VF3-->JAMMA conversion kit. We couldn't, so we had to build it from scratch. Once we had all the necessary parts, I believe it took us two straight weekends to get picture/sound/controls running.

The nice part is the hardware is built like a damn brick and takes a lickin', etc.

I will say...once we got that sumbitch working...IT WAS WORTH IT. I do acknowledge the amount of shit we had to do was insane, though.
 
Mahnmut

Mahnmut

Member
Ah the memories ! VF3 was WAY ahead of its time.
Didn't know the DC port was that bad.

I remember crazy rumors back in the day about a nearly finished Saturn version running with an Add-on.

These are supposed to be screen captures of Saturn Version. I never knew if it was true.

1mn7.jpg


3vy9.jpg


5ci8.jpg


6gs0.jpg


Found more info on sega-16 forum :

More about this and the 3D backgrounds from the thread I linked to:

To say that Virtua Fighter 3 never existed on the Saturn is ridiculous, as this game was actually completed not once but twice, each time being cancelled due to Sega's foolish managerial decisions of the post-Saturn/pre-Dreamcast era. AM2 delivered the first master of Saturn VF3 for approval in July 1998, only to be turned away because Sega was now focusing on the Dreamcast and wasn't prepared to release a downscaled conversion for older hardware that may affect sales of the planned upcoming 128-bit edition.

Yu Suzuki decided that Saturn owners had wanted a technical showcase like VF3 more than anything, plus he was tired of hearing about PlayStation's superior graphics and didn't really want to work on a two-year-old game for a system as powerful as the Dreamcast (originally, his intention was to hold VF4 for that platform, but it ended up being so good not even this system could manage a port). So, instead of doing the obvious thing and handling the Dreamcast version in-house, AM2 gave full assistance to Genki while it carried on producing what promised to be the last great Saturn game - well, apart from perhaps the Shenmue prototype, which was in development simultaneously!

After just a few weeks of hard programming work, AM2 managed to bring back fully polygonal backgrounds and push character detail to near Model 3 levels of quality. Low detailed polygonal models were utilised for the actual fights (or when two characters were seen on screen at once), and during the winning sequences a higher quality alternative would be streamed into memory, hidden by the replays.

For those more technically minded, the first version of Saturn VF3 pushed 500,000 polygons at 30 frames per second, lacking much of the background detail that made the arcade original so groundbreaking for its time. If anything, this build might have resembled the VF3 desert stage as it appeared in the earlier Fighters Megamix. As for the second revision, with clever use of the Saturn's audio processor for geometry (it is presumed that sound was either streamed or passed onto another of the console's many internal chips) this version reached 750,000 polygons at the same frame rate. Both ran in the standard 320x224 resolution, and nobody has ever found out whether or not the motion blur or stage fade effects were "real" transparencies or the usual dithered nonsense third party developers favoured. However, this being a highly anticipated AM2 production, I doubt Yu Suzuki would have allowed anything but the best. Also, coming after the likes of Burning Rangers and Panzer Dragoon Saga programmers knew how to better exploit this feature in the Saturn.

Anyway, back to the story...

A master for the second revision of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 - this was the name given by AM2 to differentiate from Genki's conversion for the Dreamcast - was sent to a pressing plant in Japan in preparation for the game's release on 5th September 1998, but at the very last minute this was delayed until after VF3tb had become a launch title on Sega's newest console. The actual date Saturn VF3 was cancelled is documented as September 17, and according to Suzuki himself AM2 spent that brief period between its planned street date and ultimate rejection showing their work to various people - including some journalists backstage at trade events - because they knew it would never see the light of day through official channels.

Now, only the few who saw VF3 "in the flesh" are prepared to speak about this holy grail. While footage of the Shenmue prototype has been happily shared by AM2 (even though most didn't know of this game's existence back then), both masters of VF3 remain locked away. When questioned about the subject for an interview a few years ago, Suzuki asked that any discussion of Saturn VF3 be removed from the published article. Since then, nobody has ever dared to ask his views, although it is well known that he felt burned when Sega chose to promote Genki's flawed Dreamcast work over his own team's incredible Saturn efforts.

While not arcade perfect on a purely technical level, I strongly agree with Yu that most people would have preferred to see VF3 as one last brilliant farewell to the 32-bit age as opposed to being a poor launch title compromised by a limited development schedule and early programming tools. Besides, in the right hands (AM2, anyone?) the Dreamcast could easily have done a game like VF3 with plenty of power to spare. Thanks to Genki's lack of experience and the similarly poor conversion of Sega Rally 2, even at an early point in its life there was a doubt as to whether the Dreamcast had the power to manage decent Model 3 quality visuals. Fortunately, this issue didn't last as the first wave of stunning NAOMI ports was just around the corner (not to mention Soul Calibur, which looks amazing even today). As with the Shenmue prototype, neither revision of Saturn VF3 used any kind of hardware accelerator or memory upgrade cartridge, and I'm sure the ability to see games of this quality running on stock hardware would surely have silenced even the Saturn's toughest critic - or the most hardcore of Sony fanboy, for that matter!

I know that I've ranted on for more than long enough already, but just very quickly I would like to comment on something that Yakumo said in his last message. First of all, through my own research I discovered that the VF3 footage shown by Sega Europe was actually from the arcade version, and more recently I found the very same video with its original descriptive text, highlighting the Model 3 board's graphical capabilities. Along with the CG sequences for VF3, this was created way back in 1996 by a company known as buildup to promote AM2's latest game for its debut as a Model 3 tech demo. If you look carefully you will see that the solo movement showcases Yakumo described (and as seen in the "History" section of VF3tb) lack any texturing on the characters' skin, which is a specific feature described in several reports from the period.

One thing I've not been able to find out much information about is the existence of a genuine Saturn tech demo showing Aoi practice over a plain background, although I'm certain this was shown as there are far too many accounts for this to be a hoax. I did manage to find out that Saturn VF3 "R2" was playtested behind closed doors at the ECTS and Tokyo Game Show in 1998, although in both cases those attending have either refused to comment or highlighted the non-disclosure agreements signed for AM2 to protect its highly secretive killer app just in case Sega changed its mind and planned a release after all. Through hard work, I managed to find out that at least three staff from the UK official Sega Saturn Magazine - including the editor, his deputy and Japanese correspondent - have all seen and possibly played Saturn VF3, but once again they are all bound by gagging orders.

For one very last quick point, there were several dates posted on the SOJ website for the release of Saturn VF3, including a brief mention of 5th May 1998 - ironically the same day that Sonic The Fighters was due to appear in stores! Much like VF3, this one was completed and then laid to eternal rest due to a certain high ranking member of Sega's US operations feeling the company mascot wouldn't suit a fighter, even though Mr. Stolar had no objections to the game's arcade release earlier... did I just name somebody by accident?!
Click to expand...
 
S

Sho Nuff

Banned
I've read that before. It's 100% false crazy fanboy bunk.

There was an early prototype, if I remember correctly it was Pai vs. Jacky on the Chinese rooftop stage, running at 30fps on stock Saturn hardware. That was as far as things got before they scrapped it and shifted it to Dreamcast.
 
G

GoofsterStud

Member
Mahnmut said:
Ah the memories ! VF3 was WAY ahead of its time.
Didn't know the DC port was that bad.

I remember crazy rumors back in the day about a nearly finished Saturn version running with an Add-on.

These are supposed to be screen captures of Saturn Version. I never knew if it was true.
:
Click to expand...

Those are bunk! It turns out they were from an early version of Mame.
 
A

AmyS

Member
Mahnmut said:
Ah the memories ! VF3 was WAY ahead of its time.
Didn't know the DC port was that bad.

I remember crazy rumors back in the day about a nearly finished Saturn version running with an Add-on.

These are supposed to be screen captures of Saturn Version. I never knew if it was true.

1mn7.jpg


3vy9.jpg


5ci8.jpg


6gs0.jpg


Found more info on sega-16 forum :
Click to expand...

Those are badly emulated Dreamcast or MAME screens.

The one (perhaps two) Saturn port(s) were never, ever seen in the public domain.
 
G

gelf

Member
I think the Saturn is a highly underrated machine but it would have been witchcraft for it to produce those images.
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
This game blew me away like no other. I still remember seeing it the first time in an arcade in London and I could not believe my eyes. Shame that I'll probably never experience such a technological jump again.
 
RAIDEN1

RAIDEN1

Member
If anyone could get VF3 to look/run/play at a decent level then it would be AM2, or Sega themselves...with the help of cartridge support it may have been a respectable port within the limitations of the Saturn hardware...but as the console was on borrowed time anyway circa 1998 its no great shock that it didn't come out on the saturn...

I can't remember if I saw VF4 arcade release....all I remember is the PS2 version..
 
F

FACE

Banned
I remember that I played VF3 for the first time on an machine that had a big screen and it blew my mind.

This one:
iboTOGMFMcFbDM.png
 
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